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Full Version: Does dff:dopwav transcode the DSD file in itself?
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Hello Simon,
I've recently upgraded my front-end to remove my Linn ADS1 and moved to a Thrax Maximinus dac with a built-in lan streamer.

Now, my new DAC (which is basically an OEM-ed MSB Diamond IV inside with much improved analog-end) is DSD 128 capable and 32/384khz on PCM. I've verified DSD playing correctly via USB (and it does show DSD64 or DSD128 on the display), however I had problem playing those same DFF files through the LAN.

All my music lies on a Synology NAS server and is streamed via the latest minimserver/streamer and I have no intention of changing that.

When trying to play native DFF files via the Lumin App/Minimserver I get "no signal" on the display of my dac and silence. After reading up a bit I added dff:dopwav on minimstreamer and voila, music plays just fine.

My question is this: on the display, the DAC pronounces 24/176.4 which I guess is consistent with the DOP standard. But is it really getting an unprocessed DSD file in a PCM container? Why is it reporting a DSD64/128 on the USB signal, is it receiving the DSD file in a different container?

All I really want to know that I am not transcoding the DSD file, but playing it as "natively" as possible.

Sorry for the long-winded question, but some information is probably pertinent.
(12-12-2015 10:07)Linn_agnostik Wrote: [ -> ]My question is this: on the display, the DAC pronounces 24/176.4 which I guess is consistent with the DOP standard. But is it really getting an unprocessed DSD file in a PCM container? Why is it reporting a DSD64/128 on the USB signal, is it receiving the DSD file in a different container?

All I really want to know that I am not transcoding the DSD file, but playing it as "natively" as possible.
Look here: https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread....post158646
(12-12-2015 10:07)Linn_agnostik Wrote: [ -> ]Hello Simon,
I've recently upgraded my front-end to remove my Linn ADS1 and moved to a Thrax Maximinus dac with a built-in lan streamer.

Now, my new DAC (which is basically an OEM-ed MSB Diamond IV inside with much improved analog-end) is DSD 128 capable and 32/384khz on PCM. I've verified DSD playing correctly via USB (and it does show DSD64 or DSD128 on the display), however I had problem playing those same DFF files through the LAN.

All my music lies on a Synology NAS server and is streamed via the latest minimserver/streamer and I have no intention of changing that.

When trying to play native DFF files via the Lumin App/Minimserver I get "no signal" on the display of my dac and silence. After reading up a bit I added dff:dopwav on minimstreamer and voila, music plays just fine.

My question is this: on the display, the DAC pronounces 24/176.4 which I guess is consistent with the DOP standard. But is it really getting an unprocessed DSD file in a PCM container?

MinimServer DoP/WAV transcoding (and the DoP standard) uses 24/176.4 for DSD64 and and 24/352.8 for DSD128. If you have enabled dsf:dopwav or dff:dopwav and you are seeing this audio information from the DAC, this means the DAC is receiving full-resolution DSD audio.

Quote:Why is it reporting a DSD64/128 on the USB signal, is it receiving the DSD file in a different container?

It is a different container and this is the reason for the difference.

Quote:All I really want to know that I am not transcoding the DSD file, but playing it as "natively" as possible.

Sorry for the long-winded question, but some information is probably pertinent.

I hope the above has reassured you that all is well.
Thanks a bundle,
reassuring Wink

Now I can relax and start enjoying my newfound music/dac Wink
Hello again,

Continuing the same trend, I see that I cannot seem to play any files with higher frequency than 192khz via the LAN. Double dsd gets downsampled to 176,4 kHz.
Why is that, how is minimstreamer sensing that it needs to downsample files?
I downloaded some test wavs from MSB and lo and behold, anything higher than 192 would not play.

Now, those same files play in native resolution through the USB port just fine, the streamer card in the dac is claimed to be 32/384 capable, so what instructs minimstreamer to send down sampled versions?
Btw, my LAN is a wired 100/100 Ethernet
(18-12-2015 11:29)Linn_agnostik Wrote: [ -> ]Hello again,

Continuing the same trend, I see that I cannot seem to play any files with higher frequency than 192khz via the LAN. Double dsd gets downsampled to 176,4 kHz.
Why is that, how is minimstreamer sensing that it needs to downsample files?
I downloaded some test wavs from MSB and lo and behold, anything higher than 192 would not play.

Now, those same files play in native resolution through the USB port just fine, the streamer card in the dac is claimed to be 32/384 capable, so what instructs minimstreamer to send down sampled versions?
Btw, my LAN is a wired 100/100 Ethernet

MinimStreamer doesn't downsample anything unless you tell it to do this in the stream.transcode option.

Perhaps your streamer has a lower maximum resolution on the LAN port than on the USB port. This would not be unusual. If so, the only way to play any WAV files via the LAN that exceed this maximum resolution is to downsample them using the stream.transcode property.

If you are sending Double DSD via MinimStreamer in DoP format, the WAV container format will be 352.8 kHz, not 176.4 kHz. If your streamer can't receive a 352.8 kHz WAV file via the LAN port, you won't be able to play these files via the LAN.

Perhaps you could contact the manufacturer of the streamer and ask them what is the maximum resolution that the streamer can receive via the LAN.
(18-12-2015 13:51)simoncn Wrote: [ -> ]If you are sending Double DSD via MinimStreamer in DoP format, the WAV container format will be 352.8 kHz, not 176.4 kHz. If your streamer can't receive a 352.8 kHz WAV file via the LAN port, you won't be able to play these files via the LAN.

Perhaps you could contact the manufacturer of the streamer and ask them what is the maximum resolution that the streamer can receive via the LAN.

Hi Simon!

Happy and prosperous 2016! Keep up the good work!

Now, re:your question - according to the spec, the network renderer is capable of both 352.8 Khz and 128 DSD, so it shouldn't be a problem (on paper).

i am unclear to how the whole openhome/upnp protocol works out the inherent capabilities of the renderer - is the network renderer advertising its capabilities to minimserver/streamer and can this be a source of incorrect information?

I've shot off a question to the manufacturer as well and awaiting reply.
From the spec page:

The Media Renderer supports high definition stereo audio formats such as 192kHz 24-bit PCM, DXD up to 384kHz 32-bit, DSD64 and DSD128.

This sentence could be parsed as:

The Media Renderer supports high definition stereo audio formats such as
  • 192kHz 24-bit PCM,
  • DXD up to 384kHz 32-bit,
  • DSD64 and
  • DSD128.
This might explain why you can't play PCM at more than 192 kHz.
Simon,

Thanks for the prompt reply; also, appreciate that you are taking the time to answer questions around somebody (some other manufacturer) else's problems.
I agree with your reading of the spec, but then I am at a loss as to why I cannot play native DSD64 or DSD128 through the media renderer. If it only plays via DOP and PCM is limited to 192 then how can it play DSD128 using minimserver?!

I feel I am missing something here
(01-01-2016 21:49)Linn_agnostik Wrote: [ -> ]Simon,

Thanks for the prompt reply; also, appreciate that you are taking the time to answer questions around somebody (some other manufacturer) else's problems.
I agree with your reading of the spec, but then I am at a loss as to why I cannot play native DSD64 or DSD128 through the media renderer. If it only plays via DOP and PCM is limited to 192 then how can it play DSD128 using minimserver?!

I feel I am missing something here

DoP is not PCM. DoP is DSD64 or DSD128 in a PCM wrapper. For DSD64, the PCM wrapper is 176.4 kHz. For DSD128, the PCM wrapper is 352.8 kHz.

DoP also provides an alternative way to encode DSD128 using a 176.4 kHz wrapper. This is not currently supported by MinimStreamer, because:

1) I am not aware of any devices that require this encoding

2) I am not aware of any devices that support this encoding

3) I don't have any means of testing this encoding (see 2 above)

4) It is more complex to implement than the "normal" 352.8 kHz encoding

Have you been able to play DSD128 from MinimStreamer using DoP encoding (i.e., in a 352.8 kHz wrapper)?
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