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Full Version: Control Points do not recognise 'Disc n' as a container
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I originally posted this on the Linn Development forum, thinking that it was a problem with Kazoo. Having now discovered that I have essentially the same issue with Bubble DS Next, I am posting here as well.

Here are the relevant parts of what I previously posted:

'In the browse list [on Kazoo], I select Disc 1, and the Disc 1 page appears. It shows only the Album and '>> Hide Contents', not individual tracks or groups. If I then click on the album icon, I get the list of tracks or groups and can play or queue them normally. But at the intermediate stage (album only showing) I get the play/queue icons, but clicking them produces the white on red tool tip error message 'Audio not available'. Then clicking on the album item leaves me without tracks or groups at the lower level, and the error message when I try to play or queue the music. It is as though attempting to play the music at the 'Disc n' level switches off the recognition of the 'Disc n' contents.

While this is hardly a catastrophe, it is a bit unfortunate that the control point behaviour appears inconsistent to the user depending on the path he or she has followed through the browse tree. Also, it would be nice to be able to select a particular disc within a multi-disc album for playing or queueing.

... Bubble DS Next ... produces similar errors to Kazoo, but I have not yet been able to work out which sequence of selections produces errors and which sequence works correctly. The Error message when there is one is "no item was found in the direct sub-folders of the selected folder", which may be a clue as to what is going on.

All in all, there seems to be an issue in identifying the contents of the 'Disc n' container producing some sort of incompatibility between the MinimServer browse tree and the control points.'


I recall that this issue has arisen before and that there was a (so far as I know) inconclusive exchange on the technicalities between Simon and Bubbleguum. Since then, all the applications I have mentioned have moved on several times to new versions, but the issue persists.

Essentially, I think, I am asking that Control Points should recognise 'Disc n' or DISCSUBTITLE as a container in the browse tree. If I understand the Bubble error message correctly, it seems that the Control Point does not see the tracks within the disc container. Is it relevant that, as most of my music is grouped, all the immediate contents of the multi-disc albums I have tested are groups rather than separate tracks?

If there is anything I can do to identify the issue more specifically, please ask.

David
Following on from the previous post, I think that I am now able to describe the issue as it affects Bubble DS Next. The difference from Kazoo seems to arise from the fact that Bubble can 'remember' where it has been in the browse tree.

On the album display on the library page in Bubble with either Disc n or DISCSUBTITLE containers showing, it is possible to select a container, but any attempt to play or queue the tracks will produce the error message "no item was found in the direct sub-folders of the selected folder". At that point, Bubble, like Kazoo, seems to lose the ability to navigate down the browse tree and find the groups/tracks in the disc container.

If, at the album level, I open (short tap) the disc container without selecting it, I get an album icon which in turn can be selected to reveal the groups/tracks, which can then be played normally. If, rather than playing the tracks, I navigate back up to the album page and select the disc container at that point, the tracks do queue and play (presumably because Bubble has cached the nodes of the browse tree that it has actually seen).

From all this, I conclude that the core problem, of the Control Point not recognising the tracks in the disc container at the album level of the browse tree, is common to Bubble and Kazoo. I hope that this additional information is helpful.

David
(09-01-2015 15:48)DavidHB Wrote: [ -> ]Following on from the previous post, I think that I am now able to describe the issue as it affects Bubble DS Next. The difference from Kazoo seems to arise from the fact that Bubble can 'remember' where it has been in the browse tree.

On the album display on the library page in Bubble with either Disc n or DISCSUBTITLE containers showing, it is possible to select a container, but any attempt to play or queue the tracks will produce the error message "no item was found in the direct sub-folders of the selected folder". At that point, Bubble, like Kazoo, seems to lose the ability to navigate down the browse tree and find the groups/tracks in the disc container.

If, at the album level, I open (short tap) the disc container without selecting it, I get an album icon which in turn can be selected to reveal the groups/tracks, which can then be played normally. If, rather than playing the tracks, I navigate back up to the album page and select the disc container at that point, the tracks do queue and play (presumably because Bubble has cached the nodes of the browse tre that it has actually seen).

From all this, I conclude that the core problem, of the Control Point not recognising the tracks in the disc container at the album level of the browse tree, is common to Bubble and Kazoo. I hope that this additional information is helpful.

David

I can reproduce this problem.

Supose you have the following tree in an album

Code:
>> Disc 1
    >> Hide Content
     "Album title"
             track 1
              ...
             track N

If in BubbleUPnP or BubbleDS you try to play folder ">> Disc 1", BubbleUPnP will load all its content recursively, loading ">> Hide Content" first and "Album title" second. The action of browsing ">> Hide Content" does what it means: it hides content of "Album title" when that folder is browsed. This results in 0 items being found and the error message dispayed you mentionned. I suppose this is a MinimServer workaround to avoid track duplicates in recursive browses from Control Points.

If you enter "Album title" manually before playing ">> Disc 1"", there are items founds since Bubble will use the cached tracks from the manual browse.

There's no solution to that problem with how "Hide Contents" work. The only solution is to browse manually to the "Album title" folder and play from there.
(09-01-2015 17:09)bubbleguuum Wrote: [ -> ]I suppose this is a MinimServer workaround to avoid track duplicates in recursive browses from Control Points.

I now remember that Simon mentioned this in the earlier discussion.

(09-01-2015 17:09)bubbleguuum Wrote: [ -> ]If you enter "Album title" manually before playing ">> Disc 1"", there are items founds since Bubble will use the cached tracks from the manual browse.

Understood. It is as I thought.

(09-01-2015 17:09)bubbleguuum Wrote: [ -> ]There's no solution to that problem with how "Hide Contents" work. The only solution is to browse manually to the "Album title" folder and play from there.

This is not a major problem, except for the fact, that, if an error is made (easy to do as there is no warning for the unfamiliar user), the user is locked out of the content of the Disc because Bubble has, in effect, cached the error condition. The only way round this I have found so far is to explicitly exit Bubble and restart it.

David
(09-01-2015 18:03)DavidHB Wrote: [ -> ]This is not a major problem, except for the fact, that, if an error is made (easy to do as there is no warning for the unfamiliar user), the user is locked out of the content of the Disc because Bubble has, in effect, cached the error condition. The only way round this I have found so far is to explicitly exit Bubble and restart it.

You can still recover the situation without an app restart by reloading the "Disc n" container with 3-dot menu > reload (while in the "Disc n" folder).
(09-01-2015 18:24)bubbleguuum Wrote: [ -> ]You can still recover the situation without an app restart by reloading the "Disc n" container with 3-dot menu > reload (while in the "Disc n" folder).

Thanks. I probably should have worked this out, but ...

As far as I know, the only Help information in BubbleDS is in Settings>About/Help>Tips. I may be missing something, but I don't think that there's any mention of reload there. And I'd guess that most new users - the ones most likely to need the recovery - won't cotton on to the purpose of 'reload' straight away. And if they're in the album listing (a likely place for the error to occur), they don't have access to any reload option unless they go to the disc listing one level down. It's all easy when you know, but if you don't know ...

David
(09-01-2015 18:24)bubbleguuum Wrote: [ -> ]You can still recover the situation without an app restart by reloading the "Disc n" container with 3-dot menu > reload (while in the "Disc n" folder).

Minimserver is incrementing the "Disc n" container's updateID value when Hide Contents is selected. A UPnP-compliant control point should detect this updateID change and reload the "Disc n" container automatically when it is next selected.
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