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Apologies for starting another thread on this topic. I've seen several posts and the user guide for arranging sorting, but I cannot get it to work the way I want it and my brain is beginning to hurt.

I'm running minimserver 0.8.1 update 29.

I have a Composer tag and a ComposerSort tag. Composer is 'First Midddle Last', and Composer Sort is 'LAST FIRST MIDDLE' with all characters in plain ASCII. There are some exceptions to this in non-classical music, which is why I want to do the tagging myself rather than rely on run-time functions. I've taught myself regular expressions and can now do this fairly easily, including handling cases where the name starts with 'The' (or 'Los' etc.). So far so good.

In minimserver:

indexTags include Composer
itemTags include ComposerSort.
tagValue includes Composer.value.sort={ComposerSort},Composer.default={ComposerSort}

On browsing (using foobar) I was hoping to see Samuel Adams showing at the top of the list for Composers, but it is showing under S as Samuel Adams. ComposerSort contains ADAMS SAMUEL.

What have I done wrong?

The manual also says I should include
tagOptions ComposerSort.reverseName.display

But I don't want to use minimserver's reversename function since I have done it myself. I tried adding this anyway, and it made no difference.

I also always have both tags, so I'm not sure if I need the Composer.default setting.

In the manual I'm also a little confused by the terminology. It refers to the 'sort' value, the 'index' value and the 'display' value. I assume the 'display' is what I see, and the 'sort' is the order in the list. But then what is the 'index'?

Anyone's help would be much appreciated. Once this works I have several other tags that I need to process in the same way.
(23-05-2014 15:57)Pastim Wrote: [ -> ]Apologies for starting another thread on this topic. I've seen several posts and the user guide for arranging sorting, but I cannot get it to work the way I want it and my brain is beginning to hurt.

I have a Composer tag and a ComposerSort tag. Composer is 'First Midddle Last', and Composer Sort is 'LAST FIRST MIDDLE' with all characters in plain ASCII. There are some exceptions to this in non-classical music, which is why I want to do the tagging myself rather than rely on run-time functions. I've taught myself regular expressions and can now do this fairly easily, including handling cases where the name starts with 'The' (or 'Los' etc.). So far so good.

This style of tagging should work well with MinimServer.

Quote:In minimserver:

indexTags include Composer
itemTags include ComposerSort.
tagValue includes Composer.value.sort={ComposerSort},Composer.default={ComposerSort}

On browsing (using foobar) I was hoping to see Samuel Adams showing at the top of the list for Composers, but it is showing under S as Samuel Adams. ComposerSort contains ADAMS SAMUEL.

What have I done wrong?

You property settings look OK. Have you checked the log for warning messages? If you have a sort value conflict for the Composer tag value 'Samuel Adams', the sort values(s) for this tag value will be ignored.

Also, have you installed the latest MinimServer update (update 29)? There was a bug in some earlier versions that would cause the symptoms you described.

Quote:The manual also says I should include
tagOptions ComposerSort.reverseName.display

But I don't want to use minimserver's reversename function since I have done it myself. I tried adding this anyway, and it made no difference.

The manual doesn't say you should include this. I presume you are referring to the bulleted list preceded by this sentence:

If you want to be able to handle these cases, one possible way to do this is to use the following slightly more complex tagging approach:

You aren't using the approach described in the bulleted list, so the suggestions in the bullets don't apply in your case.

Quote:I also always have both tags, so I'm not sure if I need the Composer.default setting.

If you always have both tags, you don't need this.

Quote:In the manual I'm also a little confused by the terminology. It refers to the 'sort' value, the 'index' value and the 'display' value. I assume the 'display' is what I see, and the 'sort' is the order in the list. But then what is the 'index'?

This is explained in the first paragraph of this section.
Thanks for your prompt and comprehensive reply. I am using 0.8.1 Update 29.

I have removed the tagOption ComposerSort.reverseName.display, and tagValue Composer.default={ComposerSort}

I now understand that what I want to change is the index value (as well as display value). However, the following sections confuse me:

'If the file has both these tags, MinimServer uses the sort value from the ComposerSort tag to set the sort value for the Composer tag and leaves the display and index values for the Composer tag unchanged.'

and then:

The above settings will use the original value of the ComposerSort tag as the index value, which means index entries will be shown as "lastname(s), firstname(s)". If you prefer to see index entries as "firstname(s) lastname(s)", you can use the tagValue setting ComposerSort.reverseName.display.index instead of ComposerSort.reverseName.display.

I want to use my own Composer tag for index and display. I just can't get the index value to show in the sort value position in the lists of Composers.

I do have some 20 warnings in my log, but not related to this tag. They are of the form:

Warning: custom value conflict for ARTIST tag '........

What does this mean? What is conflicting with what? I've tried to find documentation on the log, but so far failed. Sorry.
(23-05-2014 17:36)Pastim Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for your prompt and comprehensive reply. I am using 0.8.1 Update 29.

I have removed the tagOption ComposerSort.reverseName.display, and tagValue Composer.default={ComposerSort}

I now understand that what I want to change is the index value (as well as display value).

Did you mean "as well as sort value"? I thought you wanted to leave the display value as the value you have tagged as Composer.

Quote:However, the following sections confuse me:

'If the file has both these tags, MinimServer uses the sort value from the ComposerSort tag to set the sort value for the Composer tag and leaves the display and index values for the Composer tag unchanged.'

and then:

The above settings will use the original value of the ComposerSort tag as the index value, which means index entries will be shown as "lastname(s), firstname(s)". If you prefer to see index entries as "firstname(s) lastname(s)", you can use the tagValue setting ComposerSort.reverseName.display.index instead of ComposerSort.reverseName.display.

These quotations are from the bulleted section that doesn't apply to the tagging approach you are using, so they aren't relevant to your situation.

Quote:I want to use my own Composer tag for index and display. I just can't get the index value to show in the sort value position in the lists of Composers.

From your previous post, I thought you wanted to use the Composer tag value for display and the ComposerSort tag value for sort. I'm still not quite sure which of these tags you want to use to provide the index value.

Quote:I do have some 20 warnings in my log, but not related to this tag. They are of the form:

Warning: custom value conflict for ARTIST tag '........

What does this mean? What is conflicting with what? I've tried to find documentation on the log, but so far failed. Sorry.

This means you have a tagValue Artist.value.xxx setting that is producing a conflict. If you can post your Artist.value setting(s) and the full text of the messages you are getting, I can provide a more detailed explanation.
I thought I had been clear, but obviously not. Apologies.

I want to see the Composer tag (index and display), sorted by the ComposerSort tag. ("I want to use my own Composer tag for index and display. I just can't get the index value to show in the sort value position in the lists of Composers."). If this isn't clear I am probably failing to understand something.

I'm sorry, but the quotations still confuse me, because the section including the bullets directly addresses the situation where both composer and composersort tags are populated (as in my case, so shouldn't I read and understand this?). Maybe I'm missing some sub-headings, but I'm still rather baffled. The quotes are:

- When each audio file is read, MinimServer checks to see whether the file has a Composer tag and a ComposerSort tag. If the file has both these tags, MinimServer uses the sort value from the ComposerSort tag to set the sort value for the Composer tag and leaves the display and index values for the Composer tag unchanged. If the file has a ComposerSort tag and doesn't have a Composer tag, MinimServer uses the ComposerTag's sort and display values as the default sort and display values of the Composer tag. If the file has a Composer tag and doesn't have a ComposerSort tag, MinimServer uses the Composer tag value for displaying and sorting.
-The above settings will use the original value of the ComposerSort tag as the index value, which means index entries will be shown as "lastname(s), firstname(s)". If you prefer to see index entries as "firstname(s) lastname(s)", you can use the tagValue setting ComposerSort.reverseName.display.index instead of ComposerSort.reverseName.display.

So I'm struggling to understand which bit of the instructions I should read and which I shouldn't.

I'll leave the warnings for now and try to handle one thing at a time!
(23-05-2014 20:17)Pastim Wrote: [ -> ]II'll leave the warnings for now and try to handle one thing at a time!
I thought I had better have a look, and sure enough some of my sort values were malformed. I'm not sure how, but some human error crept in somewhere!

Thanks for a brilliant tool. No other system has spotted these errors, and I probably never would have for years, if ever.
(23-05-2014 20:17)Pastim Wrote: [ -> ]I thought I had been clear, but obviously not. Apologies.

I want to see the Composer tag (index and display), sorted by the ComposerSort tag. ("I want to use my own Composer tag for index and display. I just can't get the index value to show in the sort value position in the lists of Composers."). If this isn't clear I am probably failing to understand something.

Thanks for the clarification. What you said previously was "....what I want to change is the index value....". It was the reference to "change the index value" that confused me. As I understand it now, you want to change the sort value for Composer by using the ComposerSort tag and you want to leave the display value and index value for Composer unchanged.

Quote:I'm sorry, but the quotations still confuse me, because the section including the bullets directly addresses the situation where both composer and composersort tags are populated (as in my case, so shouldn't I read and understand this?). Maybe I'm missing some sub-headings, but I'm still rather baffled. The quotes are:

- When each audio file is read, MinimServer checks to see whether the file has a Composer tag and a ComposerSort tag. If the file has both these tags, MinimServer uses the sort value from the ComposerSort tag to set the sort value for the Composer tag and leaves the display and index values for the Composer tag unchanged. If the file has a ComposerSort tag and doesn't have a Composer tag, MinimServer uses the ComposerTag's sort and display values as the default sort and display values of the Composer tag. If the file has a Composer tag and doesn't have a ComposerSort tag, MinimServer uses the Composer tag value for displaying and sorting.
-The above settings will use the original value of the ComposerSort tag as the index value, which means index entries will be shown as "lastname(s), firstname(s)". If you prefer to see index entries as "firstname(s) lastname(s)", you can use the tagValue setting ComposerSort.reverseName.display.index instead of ComposerSort.reverseName.display.

So I'm struggling to understand which bit of the instructions I should read and which I shouldn't.

These bullets are part of a section titled 'Reversing last names and first names'. Perhaps this title is the source of the confusion. This section is about using the reverseName option to automatically reverse last names and first names. As you are not doing this, this entire section doesn't apply in your case. To avoid further confusion, I will change the section title to 'Using the reverseName option'.

Quote:I'll leave the warnings for now and try to handle one thing at a time!

In terms of solving the problem you are having, it sounds like the only tagOptions or tagValue setting that you need is Composer.value.sort={ComposerSort}. I'll try this myself to confirm that it's working. If you have any other settings in tagOptions or tagValue, it would be worth removing these to make sure they aren't related to the problem.

Just a thought: did you restart MinimServer after changing these settings? This is required for the changes to come into effect.

Edit: I just saw your latest post. I'm glad to hear you've found the cause of the problem.
Thanks very much.

I've fixed the errors on the log, but am no closer to getting my composers sorted. Just to try and be clear, I have tags:

Composer - Stephen Adams
ComposerSort - ADAMS STEPHEN

The list of composers (ie. the index value in your terminology) still includes Stephen Adams under composer starting with S, not under others beginning with A

So what have I done wrong, or have I completely misunderstood something?
(23-05-2014 23:00)Pastim Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks very much.

I've fixed the errors on the log, but am no closer to getting my composers sorted. Just to try and be clear, I have tags:

Composer - Stephen Adams
ComposerSort - ADAMS STEPHEN

The list of composers (ie. the index value in your terminology) still includes Stephen Adams under composer starting with S, not under others beginning with A

So what have I done wrong, or have I completely misunderstood something?

I misunderstood your previous post. I thought you meant that the malformed sort values had been causing this problem with Stephen Adams.

Are you using the alphaGroup property to split the Composer index into alphabetical subfolders, or are you viewing all composers in a single list?

Which control point are you using? Some control points (e.g., Naim n-Stream) don't use the sort order that MinimServer sends, but impose their own sort order.
(24-05-2014 09:48)simoncn Wrote: [ -> ]
(23-05-2014 23:00)Pastim Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks very much.

I've fixed the errors on the log, but am no closer to getting my composers sorted. Just to try and be clear, I have tags:

Composer - Stephen Adams
ComposerSort - ADAMS STEPHEN

The list of composers (ie. the index value in your terminology) still includes Stephen Adams under composer starting with S, not under others beginning with A

So what have I done wrong, or have I completely misunderstood something?

I misunderstood your previous post. I thought you meant that the malformed sort values had been causing this problem with Stephen Adams.

Are you using the alphaGroup property to split the Composer index into alphabetical subfolders, or are you viewing all composers in a single list?

Which control point are you using? Some control points (e.g., Naim n-Stream) don't use the sort order that MinimServer sends, but impose their own sort order.
How could I have doubted minimserver?

I was viewing all Composers in one list, using foobar2000 as the control point. I have just tried my Marantz renderer directly, and sure enough Stephen Adams appears at the top of the list. I then tried BubbleUpnP on my android phone, and sure enough the sort order is correct.

So foobar2000 is the culprit.

Apologies for chewing up your time on this. I should have guessed!
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