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Full Version: Conductor / Orchestra not showing in 0.52
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Hi Simon,

I have installed Minim 0.52 on my windows test environment.

Although I have included Conductor and Orchestra in the indexTags, these two fields are not being listed in the MinimServer "trees". Instead, the "Date" field is being listed despite having it removed form the indexTags.

Ayn idea why this might be?

Thanks
bbrip
This is working OK for me.

After you made these changes in the Properties window, did you press OK to confirm them and then press Restart to restart MinimServer?
UPDATE: Problem solved. I've just rescanned the library once again and all is fine. The changes I made to the indexTags showed up correctly but may not have been picked up. Anyway, I pressed "Apply" again and now its fine.

Thanks. looks al great on first browse Smile

bbrip
Oh one thing: is there any way to keep the content of the Artist tag for display on the control point?

It currently shows the AlbumArtist - which I need to have filled for my Twonky trees but which isnt what I want to have displayed in the Artist field.

thanks
bbrip
(15-07-2012 16:41)bbrip Wrote: [ -> ]Oh one thing: is there any way to keep the content of the Artist tag for display on the control point?

It currently shows the AlbumArtist - which I need to have filled for my Twonky trees but which isnt what I want to have displayed in the Artist field.

thanks
bbrip

For a track, MinimServer should send the Artist information to the control point. For an album, it should send the AlbumArtist if there is one. Can you give more details of what you are seeing on the control point?
As I usually send whole albums to the playlist, it shows the AlbumArtist, in this example: Karajan, Herbert von

instead of what I have filled into the Artist tag, being: Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan

NB: Screenprints added how the Artist field looks on the control point in Minim and in Twonky.
Hi

Actually, I believe that Twonky handles this very poorly, whereas MinimServer gets it right. Ages ago, I debated this issue with the chaps in Linn Design and we concocted a suggestion (well, more a request) for me to send to Twonky (based on how Foobar does it). I can't find the original email that I sent to Twonky, but I have found the reminder email (sent in February of this year):

Quote:Did anyone ever pursue my old suggestion of using an algorithm to display the albumartist (where present) in container zero? In other words, when you browse albums in the album container, it currently shows - on the control point - one of the contributing artists as opposed to the album artist (so it is totally meaningless for compilations). My suggestion was an algorithm could be created to do as it does now (show the artist) where the albumartist has not been populated, but where it has been populated, to show that instead.

We even suggested that they could deploy a more intelligent algorithm than the above (for when there was no albumartist entry present) which looked to see if a contributing artist appeared several times, then used that entry as opposed to a pseudorandom one.

So to clarify that by example, if it had the albumartist tagged as 'Pink Floyd', then that is what it should show on the CP. If there were no albumartist entries, but 7 of the 10 tracks were by Pink Floyd (and the other 3 by Sid Barrett) it should show it as a Pink Floyd album. Only if there was no albumartist and every contributing artist was different, should it show a random one (as it does now).

The trouble with Twonky 6 is that it just shows a random contributing artist against the album (whereas it should - where present - show the albumartist) and that makes no sense with compilation albums. The below example shows what I now see (using MinimServer) when browsing the albumartist container and navigate to my 'John Peel - Right Time, Wrong Speed' album. With MinimServer, it correctly shows as 'Peel, John' (the amlbumartist tag). Again, when browsing the albums container, it also correctly shows as a 'Peel, John' album.

With Twonky, it showed a pseudorandom contributing artist; in the case of this album, it showed disk one as being by Ivor Cutler and disk two as being by The Cocteau Twins (which made no sense at all). I would thus argue that MinimServer does it absolutely correctly, whereas Twonky is incorrect (well, maybe 'somewhat primitive' would be a better description than 'incorrect').

It would be interesting to see if Twonky have implemented this in Twonky 7. Just out of curiosity, I'll install the PC version of TMS7 and have a look.

Bri
I dont get why any more or less complex algorithms should be applied and the server should do some "guesswork" on what Artist should be displayed in the control point. The Artist info should be displayed (as it currently is in Twonky) and all is fine.

A different matter in Minim, where if I understand right we will get a string of Artist, Orchestra, Conductor if those tags are filled. However this is not what is currently happening. Minim replaces the Artist with AlbumArtist which doesnt look right to me.

Given that the AlbumArtist tag has been described as largely redundant, it should not take such dominant overwriting position. For me the AlbumArtist tag is important now as I still use Twonky. It will become less vital once I move fully to Minim. But I cant wipe out my carefully maintained AlbumArtist tags quite yet as it serves as a kind of "indexTag" for me in Twonky.

bbrip
This is a very complex subject, because of:

1) The ways that different servers handle AlbumArtist tags

2) The ways that different people use AlbumArtist tags

3) The ways that different control points use AlbumArtist information sent by the server.

As an example of 3), I discovered recently that Kinsky uses the <upnp:artist role="AlbumArtist"> tag on a track in DIDL-Lite to show correct artist information for playlist tracks when grouping playlist tracks by album. MinimServer doesn't currently send AlbumArtist information for tracks, which means that Kinsky playlists don't show grouped "Various Artists" albums correctly.

This doesn't directly affect the issue being discussed on this thread, but it shows how pervasive the use of AlbumArtist has become and how difficult it is for a server to handle the AlbumArtist tag in a way that works "properly" for all scenarios.

The server sends the following information to the control point:

a) <upnp:artist> information for tracks. MinimServer currently takes this from a combination of Conductor, Artist and Orchestra tags. It doesn't include AlbumArtist tags.

b) <upnp:artist> information for albums. MinimServer currently takes this
i) from the AlbumArtist tag if present, and
ii) from a combination of Conductor, Artist and Orchestra tags otherwise.

c) <upnp:artist role="AlbumArtist"> information for tracks. MinimServer currently doesn't send this (see above discussion). For Kinsky, it should send the same information as b). For other control points, I suspect this might cause problems, so I'll need to add a property to control this.

d) <upnp:artist role="AlbumArtist"> information for albums. MinimServer currently doesn't send this. I'm not aware of any situation where this would be needed, but I won't be surprised if someone tells me their favourite control point isn't showing some of their albums correctly because of the lack of this information.

In a future release of MinimServer, I'm planning to make the information in a) and b) ii) configurable. The issue described on this thread relates to b) i). I think making step b) i) optional would solve this issue, but I need to think this through in more depth to convince myself that it wouldn't cause problems for other scenarios.
(15-07-2012 23:24)Briain Wrote: [ -> ]We even suggested that they could deploy a more intelligent algorithm than the above (for when there was no albumartist entry present) which looked to see if a contributing artist appeared several times, then used that entry as opposed to a pseudorandom one.

So to clarify that by example, if it had the albumartist tagged as 'Pink Floyd', then that is what it should show on the CP. If there were no albumartist entries, but 7 of the 10 tracks were by Pink Floyd (and the other 3 by Sid Barrett) it should show it as a Pink Floyd album. Only if there was no albumartist and every contributing artist was different, should it show a random one (as it does now).

I agree with your thoughts on this, except for the part about replacing one pseudo-random approach for selecting the artist by a different pseudo-random approach. If I had an album with 1 x artist1 and 2 x (artist1+artist2) and 2 x (artist2+artist3) and 1 x artist3, I suppose the intelligent algorithm would choose artist2 unless it's Tuesday and you've been doing a lot of listening to artist1 stuff recently! Smile

In this case, MinimServer will combine all the artists in order of appearance, so you'll get 'artist1, artist2, artist3'. If you don't want this, you should set the AlbumArtist tag.
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