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Problem with untagged files
07-07-2013, 23:34
Post: #1
Problem with untagged files
Hi Simon,
Just posted this message on Linn DS forum but I think you will have the answer:-

Using minimserver on Qnap NAS to serve bbc radio tracks saved as .m4a files. Due to an error on my part a number of files were not tagged at the time they were downloaded. No problem I thought I can navigate using folder view. Using BubbleDS on Samsung SIII I can move the files into playlist but they do not play on any of my DS devices. (The files play fine if I just share them with NFS.) Any views as to where the problem lies? Is it the control point, minimserver or the DS which falls down with the untagged files?

I shall of course be tagging the files in due course but meanwhile would like to understand the cause of the problem and learn if there is a quick fix pending the tagging exercise.
Regards,
Budgie
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08-07-2013, 07:56 (This post was last modified: 08-07-2013 08:07 by simoncn.)
Post: #2
RE: Problem with untagged files
(07-07-2013 23:34)Budgie Wrote:  Hi Simon,
Just posted this message on Linn DS forum but I think you will have the answer:-

Using minimserver on Qnap NAS to serve bbc radio tracks saved as .m4a files. Due to an error on my part a number of files were not tagged at the time they were downloaded. No problem I thought I can navigate using folder view. Using BubbleDS on Samsung SIII I can move the files into playlist but they do not play on any of my DS devices. (The files play fine if I just share them with NFS.) Any views as to where the problem lies? Is it the control point, minimserver or the DS which falls down with the untagged files?

I shall of course be tagging the files in due course but meanwhile would like to understand the cause of the problem and learn if there is a quick fix pending the tagging exercise.
Regards,
Budgie

This should work. Please upload one of the problem files to my FTP site and I'll take a look at it.

Edit: This will happen if the sample table follows the audio data instead of preceding it. The Linn DS will only play files that have the sample table before the audio data.
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09-07-2013, 12:09
Post: #3
RE: Problem with untagged files
Hi Simon,
Many thanks for the reply. Please could you send me again, off list, your ftp site details. I have lost them for the time being due to mobo failure on main email machine.
Budgie
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09-07-2013, 15:38
Post: #4
RE: Problem with untagged files
Hi Simon,
Please disregard. Found what I needed. Will upload file now.
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09-07-2013, 22:46
Post: #5
RE: Problem with untagged files
(09-07-2013 15:38)Budgie Wrote:  Hi Simon,
Please disregard. Found what I needed. Will upload file now.

The problem is as I suspected (the mdat atom precedes the moov atom).

You can fiind some suggested tools for fixing this on this page. I have tried using qt-faststart on the file you uploaded, and this fixes the problem.
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10-07-2013, 21:45
Post: #6
RE: Problem with untagged files
(09-07-2013 22:46)simoncn Wrote:  
(09-07-2013 15:38)Budgie Wrote:  Hi Simon,
Please disregard. Found what I needed. Will upload file now.

The problem is as I suspected (the mdat atom precedes the moov atom).

You can fiind some suggested tools for fixing this on this page. I have tried using qt-faststart on the file you uploaded, and this fixes the problem.
Hi Simon,

Just updated minimserver and made a small contribution by way of showing appreciation. Thanks agaoin for your brilliant work. I updated minimwatch on my linux machine too. I used your info from way back to try and get the firewall to permit minimwatch to work. I now have it half right as minimwatch works to control server but oddly remains green even when I restart server, which is not how it is on windoze machine. I have opened UDP and TCP ports 1900 and entered SSDP and UPnP in the protocol box but I am not sure this is the correct syntax. Any further light you can shine would be appreciated.

After sending you the file I used atomicparsley to have a look at the tagging info and discovered what you have confirmed; that there is a bunch of mdat atoms before the moov atom. Thanks for the suggested fix. Will try it now.

FYI I am getting different results with these files when using BubbleDS and BubbleUPnP. Not sure if there is any issue with minimserver but the files are handled differently by these control apps and neither work well but I can play the audio files on the SIII using BubbleUPnP. I shall be raising my problems with bubbleguuum in due course but if you have any further info which may be relevant, please let me know.

Thanks again for your help.
Regards,
Budgie
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10-07-2013, 22:00
Post: #7
RE: Problem with untagged files
(10-07-2013 21:45)Budgie Wrote:  Hi Simon,

Just updated minimserver and made a small contribution by way of showing appreciation. Thanks agaoin for your brilliant work. I updated minimwatch on my linux machine too. I used your info from way back to try and get the firewall to permit minimwatch to work. I now have it half right as minimwatch works to control server but oddly remains green even when I restart server, which is not how it is on windoze machine. I have opened UDP and TCP ports 1900 and entered SSDP and UPnP in the protocol box but I am not sure this is the correct syntax. Any further light you can shine would be appreciated.

I don't have any experience with Linux firewalls. By default, MinimServer uses port 9790 (TCP) for its HTTP server. You can use the ohnet.port property to configure MinimServer to use port 9791 or any other fixed number (TCP) for the ohNet device server.

Quote:After sending you the file I used atomicparsley to have a look at the tagging info and discovered what you have confirmed; that there is a bunch of mdat atoms before the moov atom. Thanks for the suggested fix. Will try it now.

FYI I am getting different results with these files when using BubbleDS and BubbleUPnP. Not sure if there is any issue with minimserver but the files are handled differently by these control apps and neither work well but I can play the audio files on the SIII using BubbleUPnP. I shall be raising my problems with bubbleguuum in due course but if you have any further info which may be relevant, please let me know.

Thanks again for your help.
Regards,
Budgie

BubbleDS is intended for use with a Linn DS, and BubbleUPnP is intended for use with other UPnP renderers. For playing files on the SIII, you need to use BubbleUPnP because you're not using a Linn DS as the renderer.
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10-07-2013, 23:43
Post: #8
RE: Problem with untagged files
Hi Simon, Will try the port you suggest. On the two Bubble control apps, my point is that although the screens and usage are similar they behave differently with the same file. I had expected them to behave in the same way even if they are controlling different renderers.

I have installed qtfaststart a python version of qt-faststart and run it on the first five files. Assume all is now well unless I report otherwise.
Many thanks for your help once more.
Budgie
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11-07-2013, 09:37
Post: #9
RE: Problem with untagged files
(10-07-2013 23:43)Budgie Wrote:  Hi Simon, Will try the port you suggest. On the two Bubble control apps, my point is that although the screens and usage are similar they behave differently with the same file. I had expected them to behave in the same way even if they are controlling different renderers.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "behave differently". Are you sure this difference is caused by the Bubble control apps, rather than by the renderers? The Linn DS provides additional services that aren't available with a standard UPnP renderer, and BubbleDS takes advantage of these additional services.

Quote:I have installed qtfaststart a python version of qt-faststart and run it on the first five files. Assume all is now well unless I report otherwise.
Many thanks for your help once more.
Budgie

I'm glad you've found a suitable solution.
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15-07-2013, 21:25
Post: #10
RE: Problem with untagged files
Hi Simon,
My other problem file still didn't work after correcting the position of the mdat atom wrt moov. With some help I found it was because the .m4a file had been encoded with a low bit rate (HE-AACv2) which will not play on my Linn renderer. I changed the coding using ffmpeg and uploaded to NAS, moved old file out and restarted minimserver but the old file was still showing and more strangely the new file with a slightly changed name didn't show. Remind me please, how do I clear the cache in minimserver on the NAS?
Budgie.
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