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Can minim server apply different setting by DLNA render?
03-02-2020, 06:56 (This post was last modified: 04-02-2020 07:32 by mmx139.)
Post: #1
Can minim server apply different setting by DLNA render?
HI,

I am new to Minimserver. I have a huge music library all ripped from my CD collection by myself so there are 2 main formats:

1. FLAC (44.1K/16B PCM) from standard CD
2. DSF (DSD64) from SACD

I put them into one library on my Synology NAS and setup Minimserver on it as well. I have 3 AV receivers I use as DLNA renders in 3 rooms:

1. Onkyo RZ830 support DSD64 via DLNA
2. Onkyo NR838 support up to 192K/24B PCM via DLNA
3. Yamah V1067 support up to 96K/24B PCM via DLNA

They all have no issue playing the standard CD flac but for SACD which I am getting more and more, I hope I can stream the best on each device (DSD64, 176/24, 96/24). So I'd like to the DLNA server can recognize the renderer and do the transcode.

I can easily do this on a PC Foobar2000 by defining different profile under user-agent. Can I do the similar thing in Minimserver?

Any help will be highly appreciated.
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03-02-2020, 10:36
Post: #2
RE: Can minim server apply different setting by DLNA render?
The UPnP protocol does not allow the server to make this choice, only the control point. foobar2000 includes both a server and a control point but MinimServer is just a server. Which control point are you using with MinimServer?
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03-02-2020, 11:50
Post: #3
RE: Can minim server apply different setting by DLNA render?
(03-02-2020 10:36)simoncn Wrote:  The UPnP protocol does not allow the server to make this choice, only the control point. foobar2000 includes both a server and a control point but MinimServer is just a server. Which control point are you using with MinimServer?

I use the offcial app from ONKYO and Yamaha to control the AV Receiver which also serve as DLNA control point.

I think Foobar does this user agent profile recognition at DLNA server level. When I use the exact same DLNA control point but choose the Foobar server, it can do transcode as I expected.
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03-02-2020, 12:57
Post: #4
RE: Can minim server apply different setting by DLNA render?
I am surprised by this because the UPnP protocol requires the server to specify the stream type to the renderer as part of browsing the library. This happens before the user has selected a renderer to use for playing the stream. The server is not supposed to change to a different stream type when the renderer starts streaming the data. When I get an opportunity, I will try this with foobar2000 to see what is happening.
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03-02-2020, 13:13
Post: #5
RE: Can minim server apply different setting by DLNA render?
From a quick web search, it appears that the foo_upnp profile is selected by the user agent when browsing (i.e., the user agent of the control point) and not by the user agent when streaming (the user agent of the renderer). See this forum post.

This post also mentions that the server can send multiple streams to the control point so that the control point can make an optimal selection for the chosen renderer. MinimServer/MinimStreamer has full support for this. Unfortunately, most control points and renderers do not.
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03-02-2020, 14:24
Post: #6
RE: Can minim server apply different setting by DLNA render?
(03-02-2020 13:13)simoncn Wrote:  From a quick web search, it appears that the foo_upnp profile is selected by the user agent when browsing (i.e., the user agent of the control point) and not by the user agent when streaming (the user agent of the renderer). See this forum post.

This post also mentions that the server can send multiple streams to the control point so that the control point can make an optimal selection for the chosen renderer. MinimServer/MinimStreamer has full support for this. Unfortunately, most control points and renderers do not.

Thanks for the quick response and it really helps me to understand how DLNA works. :-)

Yon mentioned that Minimserver/Minimstreamer has full support to send multiple streams to the control point, can I know how to do this? I'd like to setup and have a try. Let's say if the source file is a DSF (in DSD64) format, let Minimserver to send both DSD64 and a transcoded 96/24 stream to the same control point.
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03-02-2020, 16:43 (This post was last modified: 03-02-2020 16:44 by simoncn.)
Post: #7
RE: Can minim server apply different setting by DLNA render?
It is worth trying. The full description of how to do this is in this section. For what you have described, the stream.transcode property should be set to dsf:-/wav24;96. This sends two streams: the first (-) is not transcoded and the second (wav24;96) is transcoded to PCM WAV at 24/96. The order is significant because if things are working correctly the control point should use the first stream that is playable on the selected renderer.
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04-02-2020, 07:27 (This post was last modified: 04-02-2020 07:40 by mmx139.)
Post: #8
RE: Can minim server apply different setting by DLNA render?
(03-02-2020 16:43)simoncn Wrote:  It is worth trying. The full description of how to do this is in this section. For what you have described, the stream.transcode property should be set to dsf:-/wav24;96. This sends two streams: the first (-) is not transcoded and the second (wav24;96) is transcoded to PCM WAV at 24/96. The order is significant because if things are working correctly the control point should use the first stream that is playable on the selected renderer.

Thanks so much, I read the document yesterday but I did not know a "-" stands for a bypass. I just re-read and found it. Somehow it was ignored by me yesterday。 ;-)

I just tried "dsf: -/wav24;96. It works perfectly, the device support DSD plays DSD64 and the other 2 play PCM 96/24.

I also tried "dsf:-/wav24;176/wav24;96" but it looks like the device only support up to 96/24 will only accept the 1st PCM stream and won't try the 3rd stream which caused it failed to play.

I think I will stick to dsf:-/wav24;96 which should be good enough already!

Thanks again. :-)
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04-02-2020, 09:00
Post: #9
RE: Can minim server apply different setting by DLNA render?
I am pleased to hear that the two-stream approach is working. The reason the three-stream approach does not work is that the UPnP protocol only allows the renderer to advertise stream types that it supports, not the maximum resolution for the stream type. So a renderer can tell the control point that it supports WAV but it cannot say that it supports WAV with a maximum resolution of 24/96.
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06-02-2020, 04:15 (This post was last modified: 06-02-2020 04:15 by lyapounov.)
Post: #10
RE: Can minim server apply different setting by DLNA render?
(04-02-2020 07:27)mmx139 Wrote:  
(03-02-2020 16:43)simoncn Wrote:  It is worth trying. The full description of how to do this is in this section. For what you have described, the stream.transcode property should be set to dsf:-/wav24;96. This sends two streams: the first (-) is not transcoded and the second (wav24;96) is transcoded to PCM WAV at 24/96. The order is significant because if things are working correctly the control point should use the first stream that is playable on the selected renderer.

Thanks so much, I read the document yesterday but I did not know a "-" stands for a bypass. I just re-read and found it. Somehow it was ignored by me yesterday。 ;-)

I just tried "dsf: -/wav24;96. It works perfectly, the device support DSD plays DSD64 and the other 2 play PCM 96/24.

I also tried "dsf:-/wav24;176/wav24;96" but it looks like the device only support up to 96/24 will only accept the 1st PCM stream and won't try the 3rd stream which caused it failed to play.

I think I will stick to dsf:-/wav24;96 which should be good enough already!

Thanks again. :-)

Lucky you.
I have a klimax, and a chromecast.
Your control points don't work with those devices.

I use Lumin app, or Teac HR streamer (which is exactly the same one), but none of them uses what the renderer publishes. Therefore I need to go back to my laptop, lauch minimwath, and change the setting when I switch from one to another :-(
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