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Indexing with ArtistSort
18-03-2018, 13:46
Post: #11
RE: Indexing with ArtistSort
Have you tried my suggestion of using the "n albums" menu selection instead of the Album index?
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18-03-2018, 14:52
Post: #12
RE: Indexing with ArtistSort
(18-03-2018 13:46)simoncn Wrote:  Have you tried my suggestion of using the "n albums" menu selection instead of the Album index?
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding the distinction between "n albums" and the Album index. When I open the Naim app it presents a menu of all the index fields (Artist, Date, etc), but not Album which is not in my current indexTags. The menu also includes headings for the number of albums, items, and playlists (e.g 5074 albums), and I assume this is the "n albums" menu item. The multiple entry results described in my previous mails all come from this menu selection.

The Server Properties currently read:

indexTags: Artist, Date, Genre, All Artists, Composer, Rating, AlbumArtist,
itemTags: Artist Sort, Album
tagOptions: Album.sortTags={Album, +Date},
tagValue: Artist.value.index.sort={Artist Sort}, AlbumArtist.value.sort.display={AlbumArtist, Artist Sort}
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18-03-2018, 15:56 (This post was last modified: 18-03-2018 16:03 by simoncn.)
Post: #13
RE: Indexing with ArtistSort
Thanks, I understand now. This can happen if your files are grouped into folders by artist name (iTunes does this) rather than by album. The solution is to set the mergeFolderAlbums property to true, then restart MinimServer.
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18-03-2018, 16:59
Post: #14
RE: Indexing with ArtistSort
(18-03-2018 15:56)simoncn Wrote:  Thanks, I understand now. This can happen if your files are grouped into folders by artist name (iTunes does this) rather than by album. The solution is to set the mergeFolderAlbums property to true, then restart MinimServer.

Brilliant, Simon, perfect – thank you very much. Apart from it's presentational benefit, it has substantially reduced the number of 'albums' in the collection. For what it's worth, I've used dbPoweramp to rip my discs and, as best I recall, employed its default structure for creating folders which, as you say, are based on artist name.

Now that the structure of the displays is as I'd hoped and intended, I look forward to confusing myself further on the 'Advanced' tab!
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20-03-2018, 01:50
Post: #15
RE: Indexing with ArtistSort
I'm sorry to return on this, Simon, but I've encountered a problem with the way the Artist index displays artists whose names appear in multiple contexts. I'm not sure if it arises from the tags or from the folders after implementation of < mergeFolderAlbums: true >. All the files concerned are FLAC and the problem is occurring on both the Naim and Kinsky control points.

In essence the problem seems to be that whenever an artist has a folder and artist sort tags in his sole name, and also has folders and artist sort tags that are extended (either with \\second artist or with the name of a band) the Artist index does not follow the logic of tagValue: Artist.value.index.sort={Artist Sort} . The index shows Artist where the artist is alone and Artist Sort where the artist's name has some extension.

Two examples, in both of which AlbumArtist is blank:

(a) with joint artists:

Artist and Folder: Miles Davis; Artist Sort: Davis, Miles; Artist index display: Miles Davis (= Artist)
Artist and Folder: Miles Davis & John Coltrane; Artist Sort: Davis, Miles\\Coltrane, John; Artist index display: Davis, Miles (= Artist Sort)

(b) with extended artist name:

Artist and Folder: Larry Coryell; Artist Sort: Coryell, Larry; Artist Index display: Larry Coryell (= Artist)
Artist and Folder: Larry Coryell Offering Band; Artist Sort: Coryell, Larry; Artist Index display: Coryell, Larry (= Artist Sort)
Artist and Folder: Larry Coryell & Eleventh House; Artist Sort: Coryell, Larry & Eleventh House; Artist Index display: Coryell, Larry & Eleventh House (= Artist Sort).

In all cases the logic of the tagValue should give an index reading Artist Sort, and I don't understand how or why it opts to give these different results, and in particular to ignore the Artist Sort value where the artist is solitary.

I think this has occurred after setting mergeFolderAlbums to 'true'. As you noted in your last post, my folders are based on artist name: Miles Davis albums live in a different folder from those of 'Miles Davis & John Coltrane'. Likewise the Coryell example. Perhaps this is the root of the problem.

Current settings are:

indexTags: Artist, Date, Genre, All Artists, Composer, Rating, AlbumArtist,
itemTags: Artist Sort, Album, Band, Soloists, Orchestra, Conductor
mergeFolderAlbums: true
tagOptions: Album.sortTags={AlbumArtist, Artist Sort, +Date},
tagValue: Artist.value.index.sort={Artist Sort},
tagFormat: Album.displayFormat={$album^$date^ [^]},

Is there a structural solution to the apparent anomaly? Or would I be better advised to move joint artist albums to one of their respective artist folders, and extended name albums to the principal artist's folder? And if I were to do this, would it give rise to any other issues eg. reading an Artist tag from a folder with a different name? Thank you for any advice you can offer.

PS – for information: I have found that forward slash separators show joint artists in Artist Sort in the control point as well as in the mp3tag Artist Sort column. This is not the case for double backslash entries which show only the first named artist in both displays (but show both artists in the mp3tag Tag Panel ArtistSort field). However the problem discussed above was identified when backslashes were used, and modifying them to forwardslashes has not altered outcomes.
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20-03-2018, 19:00
Post: #16
RE: Indexing with ArtistSort
Please check the MinimServer log for warning messages about conflicting sort values. Do you see any such messages?
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20-03-2018, 23:33
Post: #17
RE: Indexing with ArtistSort
I have about a forty Artist-related conflict messages, most of which concern drafting errors (e.g. minor spelling discrepancies between the Artist and Artist Sort names or the use, by personal preference, of a completely different name in Artist Sort). But three messages relate indirectly to the examples and problem identified in my post:

1. Warning: custom value conflict for ARTIST tag 'Larry Coryell' in file Larry Coryell/Impressions; The New York Sessions (Organ Trio)/01 - Very Early.flac
current index/sort value is 'Coryell, Larry'; new index/sort value is 'Coryell, Larry Organ Trio'

The latter sort value is correct, but the Artist index nevertheless displays the Album under Artist (ie Larry Coryell). It is also strange that the Album list within the Larry Coryell Artist index shows this album out of date order and so, unlike the other albums, does not comply with < tagOptions: Album.sortTags={AlbumArtist, Artist Sort, +Date} >, which would seem to suggest a processing problem.

2. Warning: custom value conflict for ARTIST tag 'Miles Davis' in file Miles Davis/Music from Siesta/01 - Lost In Madrid, Pt. 1.flac
current index/sort value is 'Davis, Miles'; new index/sort value is 'Miller, Marcus'

For reasons of personal preference, and not realising that there was a validation process between Artist and Artist Sort, I made 'Miller, Marcus' the Artist Sort.

3. Warning: custom value conflict for ARTIST tag 'Richard Thompson' in file Richard Thompson/RT; The Life and Music of Richard Thompson, Disc 5 (Real Rarities)/02 - How Many Times Do You Have to Fall.flac
current index/sort value is 'Thompson, Richard'; new index/sort value is 'Thompson, Richard & Thompson, Linda'

The new index/sort value is a correct reading of the tag; and the track, along with all other tracks from the disc set, appears under Artist (ie Richard Thompson).

I've tried an experiment with the Larry Coryell albums, adding an AlbumArtist field with the Artist Sort (ie. reverse name + extension) data for all albums which were not Larry Coryell 'solo'. The aim was to defeat any dysfunctionality between the Artist and Artist Sort indices by using the precedence of AlbumArtist to overwrite the 'non-solo' Artist index entries, thereby hopefully releasing the 'solo' albums to be indexed under Artist Sort. But this has not worked: while the 'non-solo' albums are indexed under the Album Artist (=Artist Sort) name, his 'solo' albums remain indexed under Artist (ie. Larry Coryell).

I've also spotted a couple of misreadings of a field, eg.:

Warning: custom value conflict for ARTIST tag 'Tom Petty' in file Tom Petty/Wildflowers/01 - Wildflowers.flac
current index/sort value is 'Harrison, George'; new index/sort value is 'Petty, Tom'

The oddity here is that, 'Harrison, George' does not feature anywhere in the tag. He does, however, feature in Artist Sort for two other tracks on a different album where Tom Petty is the Artist.

I am sorry if all this is highly confusing but hope all it may be of some help in a diagnosis.
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21-03-2018, 21:23 (This post was last modified: 21-03-2018 22:47 by simoncn.)
Post: #18
RE: Indexing with ArtistSort
Each Artist value can only have one sort value (identical for all files with that Artist tag). An attempt to change this sort value will leave the current value in place and ignore the new value. The file in the message is the file containing the new value that has been ignored.

See comments inline below on how this affects your specific examples.

(20-03-2018 23:33)bganthem Wrote:  1. Warning: custom value conflict for ARTIST tag 'Larry Coryell' in file Larry Coryell/Impressions; The New York Sessions (Organ Trio)/01 - Very Early.flac
current index/sort value is 'Coryell, Larry'; new index/sort value is 'Coryell, Larry Organ Trio'

The index/sort value 'Coryell, Larry Organ Trio' in the tags of the file 'Larry Coryell/Impressions; The New York Sessions (Organ Trio)/01 - Very Early.flac' has been ignored. The sort value 'Coryell, Larry' in the tags of other file(s) is used instead.

(20-03-2018 23:33)bganthem Wrote:  2. Warning: custom value conflict for ARTIST tag 'Miles Davis' in file Miles Davis/Music from Siesta/01 - Lost In Madrid, Pt. 1.flac
current index/sort value is 'Davis, Miles'; new index/sort value is 'Miller, Marcus'

The index/sort value 'Miller, Marcus' in the tags of the file 'Miles Davis/Music from Siesta/01 - Lost In Madrid, Pt. 1.flac' has been ignored. The sort value 'Davis, Miles' in the tags of other file(s) is used instead.

(20-03-2018 23:33)bganthem Wrote:  3. Warning: custom value conflict for ARTIST tag 'Richard Thompson' in file Richard Thompson/RT; The Life and Music of Richard Thompson, Disc 5 (Real Rarities)/02 - How Many Times Do You Have to Fall.flac
current index/sort value is 'Thompson, Richard'; new index/sort value is 'Thompson, Richard & Thompson, Linda'

The index/sort value 'Thompson, Richard & Thompson, Linda' in the tags of the file 'Richard Thompson/RT; The Life and Music of Richard Thompson, Disc 5 (Real Rarities)/02 - How Many Times Do You Have to Fall.flac' has been ignored. The sort value 'Thompson, Richard' in the tags of other file(s) is used instead.

I think this explains all the issues you are seeing. The conflict message could be worded more clearly and I will improve this in the next MinimServer update.

Edit: The new wording will be:

Warning: Ignoring conflicting custom value for ARTIST tag 'Richard Thompson' in file Richard Thompson/RT; The Life and Music of Richard Thompson, Disc 5 (Real Rarities)/02 - How Many Times Do You Have to Fall.flac
applied index/sort value is 'Thompson, Richard'; conflicting index/sort value is 'Thompson, Richard & Thompson, Linda'
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22-03-2018, 09:43
Post: #19
RE: Indexing with ArtistSort
Thank you, Simon. I'll amend the conflicted tags highlighted in the log as well as those mentioned in the previous post and other similar examples, and hope this puts my house in order. Until seeing in the log that conflcts arose from spelling discrepancies between the two fields (notably accents in foreign artist names) I hadn't appreciated that there was a strict and unique link between Artist and Artist Sort. Presumably this applies also to AlbumsArtistSort and ComposerSort too.

My aim had been to provide a single Artist Sort index reference point for an artist irrespective of the combination in which he/she was performing, with Artist displaying that combination in Album and Now Playing. I think the only way this is achievable is by using AlbumArtist as the single index reference point (as, no doubt, I should have done during the ripping process) and I will try that out.

I agree that your rewording of the log message is helpful. You might also consider noting in the User Guide the unique link of the Sort fields to their origin fields lest any other crackpots try to go down my route!

Thank you again for your help.
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22-03-2018, 10:16 (This post was last modified: 22-03-2018 16:02 by simoncn.)
Post: #20
RE: Indexing with ArtistSort
The strict link between Artist and Artist Sort is caused by this setting in your configuration:

tagValue: Artist.value.index.sort={Artist Sort}

Without this setting, there would be no link between these tags.

Using AlbumArtist instead of Artist Sort as the single index reference point should work for indexing but will not work for Now Playing if you want track artists from compilations to appear here.
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