Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Feature Request: Tag Update Tag Referencing
05-09-2017, 11:18
Post: #1
Feature Request: Tag Update Tag Referencing
I have recently overhauled my music library following an equipment upgrade. MinimServer has undergone some wonderful enhancements since I last played and it does almost everything I want. Love it! I find myself currently only really missing one thing. It's a problem faced by others, too, I think (witness at least http://forum.minimserver.com/showthread....=tagUpdate). For classical music, there just aren't enough fields in the typical renderer's display, so compromises must sometimes be made to accommodate the composer (when the composer name is not in the album title, usually).

The solution proposed by Simon in the above post would certainly work, but it does make the (non-classical) audio files rather less portable for use with other servers, etc.

As I looked at the tagFormat property and my music collection, I longed to do something like this:

Title.displayFormat={($genre=="Classical"?$composer:)^^ • $title^$movementnumber^: ^. $movement}

The embedded ternary operator would supply the composer name only if the genre were "Classical", but of course this functionality is not part of the spec.

Then I discovered the tagUpdate property. It gets closer to solving the problem, but only takes literal strings as setting or replacement text. My thought was to reference the COMPOSER tag for the contents of a new CLCOMPOSER tag for files tagged "Classical". So in the tag update file would be these lines:

@GENRE=Classical
+CLCOMPOSER=$Composer

This new CLCOMPOSER tag would then be referenced in the Title's display format:

Title.displayFormat={$clcomposer^^ • $title^$movementnumber^: ^. $movement}

This way, only Classical items would show the composer in the Title field.

Could we see tag names processed thus on the right side of the equals sign in a future update of MinimServer??
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-09-2017, 06:58
Post: #2
RE: Feature Request: Tag Update Tag Referencing
I'm curious, why don't you want to see composer in other genres? I have a lot of classical and of course want to see composer, but I also enjoy seeing who wrote the rock or jazz piece I'm listening to. And if you don't want to see composer for any other genres, then why not just delete the composer tag from everything except classical?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-09-2017, 08:44
Post: #3
RE: Feature Request: Tag Update Tag Referencing
(09-09-2017 06:58)antonmb Wrote:  I'm curious, why don't you want to see composer in other genres? I have a lot of classical and of course want to see composer, but I also enjoy seeing who wrote the rock or jazz piece I'm listening to. And if you don't want to see composer for any other genres, then why not just delete the composer tag from everything except classical?

It’s not that I never want to see the composer for non-classical music, but for me and classical music the Composer is the most significant data point, if you like, and for non-classical music, it’s generally the Artist. Also, I have spent time to ensure that my composer tags for classical music are all consistent and brief. I don’t do this with most of my non-classical music files, which I usually leave as they are. Sometimes their Composer tags comprise long lists of collaborators and there can even be some junk in there. I can’t give examples as I’m on the road at the moment and don’t have my collection with me.

As for simply deleting all non-classical composers… I guess I could but that feels rather destructive. And surely, as soon as I did that I’d want to check who wrote xxx! (I can always check any tag for any file playing by going to my computer and clicking a button: I have a metaflac script for this.)
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-09-2017, 15:00 (This post was last modified: 10-09-2017 15:03 by antonmb.)
Post: #4
RE: Feature Request: Tag Update Tag Referencing
Then the other simple alternative is to put the composer in the album artist field for classical. All the performers can go in either a performer or soloists field. For classical, I have the following fields;
AlbumArtist (composer in last name, first name format)
Conductor
Orchestra
Soloists

I leave track artist blank because I also use portable players which don't show composer but do sort by track artist, so it can be quite difficult of the track artist field is loaded with performers and conductors - but this field can of course be used for soloists, conductor, etc.

In the long run it pays to do the work of cleaning and correcting tags to your preferences, since the information that comes from the internet databases is often such a mess.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-09-2017, 13:00
Post: #5
RE: Feature Request: Tag Update Tag Referencing
My thoughts are that Track Artist is a real field for Pop/Rock tracks that usually matches what is on the cover but is a meta-metadata field for Classical that should be set to users preference i.e conductor; performers or as you want Composer.

So you could do in tag editor by copying over from composer to artist column for classical releases only. You are then not deleting any data, and I think this is easier than trying to configure it in MinimServer. I should add you could also this in an automatic way with Songkong by setting Classical:Track Artist to Composer.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-09-2017, 14:52
Post: #6
RE: Feature Request: Tag Update Tag Referencing
(12-09-2017 13:00)paultaylor Wrote:  My thoughts are that Track Artist is a real field for Pop/Rock tracks that usually matches what is on the cover but is a meta-metadata field for Classical that should be set to users preference i.e conductor; performers or as you want Composer.

Not correct. The AlbumArtist field in pop/rock is used for the name of the artist who released the album (i.e. DJ Khalid). It is usually single-value and contains one name only. The Artist field would be used at track level to list all the artists collaborating on the track, such as with duets and contributions like the vocals. It would be multi-value and contain DJ Khalid; Katy Perry; Pharell Williams. Artist is also important for collections such as your run-of-the-mill Greatest Hits Of The Year album.

Note that most metadata formats also support tags like AlbumArtistSort and ArtistSort to faciliate sorting by first name or last name.

(12-09-2017 13:00)paultaylor Wrote:  So you could do in tag editor by copying over from composer to artist column for classical releases only. You are then not deleting any data, and I think this is easier than trying to configure it in MinimServer. I should add you could also this in an automatic way with Songkong by setting Classical:Track Artist to Composer.

MP3Tag also has facilities to auto-fill tags with values.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-09-2017, 16:37 (This post was last modified: 12-09-2017 16:48 by paultaylor.)
Post: #7
RE: Feature Request: Tag Update Tag Referencing
(12-09-2017 14:52)Pepsican Wrote:  Not correct. The AlbumArtist field in pop/rock is used for the name of the artist who released the album (i.e. DJ Khalid). It is usually single-value and contains one name only. The Artist field would be used at track level to list all the artists collaborating on the track, such as with duets and contributions like the vocals. It would be multi-value and contain DJ Khalid; Katy Perry; Pharell Williams. Artist is also important for collections such as your run-of-the-mill Greatest Hits Of The Year album.
When I said On the Cover I meant on the cover on Sleeve (i,e front or back). So yes track artist can be multi value, but it usually clearly stated on the cover if the track artist is different to the album artist (which for most releases it is not). The key thing is the liner notes may well additionally credit everyone involved on each track (i.e drummer, keyboards ectera) but you wouldnt add them all to each track artist. In contrast Classical music doesnt really have this distinction there is not a clear 'track artist' so you have to decide what the track artist to represent, probably a combination of Solo Performers, Orchestra, Conductors, Composer etc.

Pepsican Wrote:MP3Tag also has facilities to auto-fill tags with values.
Great, but can it say 'set Track Artist to Composer but only if the release is a Classical release'.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
13-09-2017, 16:01
Post: #8
RE: Feature Request: Tag Update Tag Referencing
(10-09-2017 15:00)antonmb Wrote:  Then the other simple alternative is to put the composer in the album artist field for classical. All the performers can go in either a performer or soloists field. For classical, I have the following fields;
AlbumArtist (composer in last name, first name format)
Conductor
Orchestra
Soloists

I leave track artist blank because I also use portable players which don't show composer but do sort by track artist, so it can be quite difficult of the track artist field is loaded with performers and conductors - but this field can of course be used for soloists, conductor, etc.

In the long run it pays to do the work of cleaning and correcting tags to your preferences, since the information that comes from the internet databases is often such a mess.

This seems a novel way to use AlbumArtist but I’m not sure it’ll help my cause. Generally you want to make sure AlbumArtist is constant (one value) for an album where different artists perform on different tracks if you want to have MinimServer display that album as one album. I have recently ripped The Art of Alfred Deller, in which there are a few accompanying performers on different tracks and even more composers represented. If I don’t put “Alfred Deller” in the AlbumArtist tag, then MinimServer shows the album as multiple albums, according to the number of unique Artist combinations encountered (I can’t remember how many exactly as I’m not at home at present to check). If I were to put the composer for each track in the AlbumArtist, surely this would fragment the album even more and show it as n albums, where n is the number of composers represented on the whole album?

I agree that accuracy in tagging is paramount but taking care of my classical collection already takes up a lot of time. The “due diligence” required of other music must sadly wait. This is why I thought the cleverness of MinimServer’s Tag Update feature might come to the rescue for now as I dared to hope that a variable assignment (i.e. tag on the right of the equals sign in the update file) might not be a huge leap from the current limitation of constant assignment. For now, I can still “solve” my problem by creating a duplicate composer tag for all my classical files with a new name and putting that in the Title tagFormat string. It’s just a bit cumbersome and involves a lot of redundancy.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
13-09-2017, 16:12
Post: #9
RE: Feature Request: Tag Update Tag Referencing
(13-09-2017 16:01)qblack Wrote:  If I don’t put “Alfred Deller” in the AlbumArtist tag, then MinimServer shows the album as multiple albums, according to the number of unique Artist combinations encountered (I can’t remember how many exactly as I’m not at home at present to check). If I were to put the composer for each track in the AlbumArtist, surely this would fragment the album even more and show it as n albums, where n is the number of composers represented on the whole album?

In a case like this I use "Various Composers" as the album artist, list each composer individually in the track composer field, and Alfred Deller as the Soloist (or Performer if you prefer). There is no perfect solution, you just have to pick your poison.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
15-09-2017, 10:03
Post: #10
RE: Feature Request: Tag Update Tag Referencing
(12-09-2017 16:37)paultaylor Wrote:  When I said On the Cover I meant on the cover on Sleeve (i,e front or back).
Just to be clear, the track "Diamonds on the soles of her shoes" from the "Graceland" album by Paul Simon.

AlbumArtist = Paul Simon
AlbumArtistSort = Simon, Paul
Artist = Paul Simon; Lady Black Mambazoo
ArtistSort = Simon, Paul; Lady Black Mambazoo
Composer = Paul Simon
ComposerSort = Simom, Paul
AlbumTitle = Graceland
AlbumTitleSort = Graceland

(12-09-2017 16:37)paultaylor Wrote:  Great, but can it say 'set Track Artist to Composer but only if the release is a Classical release'.
yes, it can. It has IF...THEN...ELSE logic.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)