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Best method for "firstname lastname" to "lastname, firstname"
02-08-2017, 18:47 (This post was last modified: 02-08-2017 18:57 by jcdrisco.)
Post: #1
Best method for "firstname lastname" to "lastname, firstname"
My apologies if this has been asked and answered, but I've ripped my classical music collection with the composer tag organized as "firstname lastname" I'd like to sort the minimserver output by last name--so that "Johannes Brahms" is under "B," but view it, if possible, as "Johannes Brahms," not "Brahms, Johannes"

The "reverseName" option does the reverse of what I want. I'm thinking of using a batch editor such as mp3tag to redo all the composer tags as "lastname, firstname," and then use the "reverseName" tag option. (I didn't do this originally because I'm not sure the ripping program I used at the time initially had that option). Is that the best way?
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02-08-2017, 20:41 (This post was last modified: 02-08-2017 20:42 by DavidHB.)
Post: #2
RE: Best method for "firstname lastname" to "lastname, firstname"
I set up my system before the reverseName capability was added to MinimServer, and I use separate Composer and ComposerSort tags. The indexTags property has ComposerSort:Composer, and Composer is in itemTags. I also use ComposerSort in the Album.sortTags value of the tagOptions property, and the tagFormat property includes the value 'ComposerSort.displayFormat={$composer}'.

Composer tags are in the format 'Johannes Brahms', and ComposerSort tags are 'Brahms, Johannes. I use an MP3Tag action to create the ComposerSort Tags. The workings of this action are described in my post #7 in this thread

My method as a whole may not work for you, but I hope that this post provides some ideas and resources you can use.

David
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02-08-2017, 22:31
Post: #3
RE: Best method for "firstname lastname" to "lastname, firstname"
(02-08-2017 18:47)jcdrisco Wrote:  The "reverseName" option does the reverse of what I want. I'm thinking of using a batch editor such as mp3tag to redo all the composer tags as "lastname, firstname," and then use the "reverseName" tag option. (I didn't do this originally because I'm not sure the ripping program I used at the time initially had that option). Is that the best way?
SortNames fields are designed exactly for this. My own view is that using a sortname provided from a 3rd party database such as MusicBrainz is more reliable then trying to do it manually because of exceptions, translations ectera. Example configuration at http://blog.jthink.net/2017/03/minimserv...rting.html
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02-08-2017, 23:50 (This post was last modified: 02-08-2017 23:53 by DavidHB.)
Post: #4
RE: Best method for "firstname lastname" to "lastname, firstname"
(02-08-2017 22:31)paultaylor Wrote:  SortNames fields are designed exactly for this. My own view is that using a sortname provided from a 3rd party database such as MusicBrainz is more reliable then trying to do it manually because of exceptions, translations ectera.

This is a good point. For instance, the correct sort name for Josquin Desprez is - Josquin Desprez.

In fact, this approach and the technique I have been using are not mutually exclusive; you can mix and match according to circumstances. The key thing is to ensure that you use the same composer name (and sort name, if you use one). I have a couple of thoughts on this.

Firstly, CD rippers that insert metadata from the Internet often populate the ComposerSort tag. dBpoweramp is one example. This can provide a starting point for my next tip.

In MP3Tag, you will find that you cannot open multiple random folders at once, though, as folders open recursively, you can open all the album folders contained in ..\Music\Classical\Brahms\, for instance. You can also make a non-contiguous selection in Windows File Explorer, and right click to open them in MP3Tag. And in MP3Tag itself, next to the Folder>Open icon there is a Folder>Add icon, which you can use to add a folder and its sub-folders to the current grid. This extended selection may contain tracks you don't currently wish to work with, so opening the filter (F3) and putting in a condition such as 'Composer HAS Brahms' might give you the set of files you want to work with.

If you decide to have and populate a ComposerSort tag, it will make sense to display it in the tag panel on the left of the Mp3Tag window. (You can do this in Tools > Options > Tag Panel.) Suppose you want all the tracks currently in the grid to have a ComposerSort value of 'Brahms, Johannes' Select all the files in the grid. In the ComposerSort tag in the tag panel, you may see <keep>. This indicates that the tracks do not all have the same ComposerSort value (and MP3Tag will leave those different values unchanged when it saves the files).

The clever bit (one of the best features of MP3Tag, I think) is that the drop-down at the right hand end of the tag box gives you a list of all the values of that tag that are present in the current selection. If, in our example, one of those values is 'Brahms, Johannes' (maybe from an earlier tagging session), all you have to do is to select that value and press the Save icon to apply that value to every track in the selection. This means that you can reliably apply a particular tag value to hundreds or perhaps thousands of tracks in one action.

My own approach would be to use the procedure I have just described to ensure that all the tracks have the same Composer value, then use one of my pre-defined actions (see my previous post) to generate corresponding ComposerSort values. But you will have your own view on what is best for you.

I hope this is helpful.

David
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03-08-2017, 00:23
Post: #5
RE: Best method for "firstname lastname" to "lastname, firstname"
(02-08-2017 18:47)jcdrisco Wrote:  I'm thinking of using a batch editor such as mp3tag to redo all the composer tags as "lastname, firstname," and then use the "reverseName" tag option. (I didn't do this originally because I'm not sure the ripping program I used at the time initially had that option). Is that the best way?

Your suggestion is one of the options proposed in the Minimserver user guide section "Using the reverseName option" although it does presume that Composer is already "last name, first name".

It goes on to recognise that not all composers consist of the simple "last name, first name" format and suggest possible work arounds, not unlike those already suggested by PaulTaylor and DavidHB.

Good luck.
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03-08-2017, 10:17
Post: #6
RE: Best method for "firstname lastname" to "lastname, firstname"
Thanks, all, for your responses. I have thousands of files and am looking for a way to do a batch change, supplemented by editing for special cases. I may try creating a composerSort tag from my current composer tag, batch changing that tag to reverse order, and then manually edit the exceptions.
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03-08-2017, 18:35
Post: #7
RE: Best method for "firstname lastname" to "lastname, firstname"
(03-08-2017 10:17)jcdrisco Wrote:  Thanks, all, for your responses. I have thousands of files and am looking for a way to do a batch change, supplemented by editing for special cases. I may try creating a composerSort tag from my current composer tag, batch changing that tag to reverse order, and then manually edit the exceptions.

My idea was at first very similar, but I came to the conclusion that it wasn't really worth the effort of developing and testing a script that would really only be used once. Rather, putting the effort into creating a workflow that would work as well for additions to the collection as for the initial bulk tagging process was what paid off for me.

Quite a bit of the effort was making sure that I was using a folder structure that would make it easier to work on sensible groupings of folders in the MP3Tag grid. The top layer of my folder structure is a set of very broadly-based Genres (Classical, Pop, Jazz, Folk, World etc.), within which there can be different sub-categories. So the second level division of the Classical genre (much the biggest in my collection) is by composer; in the other genres, artist is the second level.

All of this made it much easier to use the techniques I have already described. The process of making sure that composer names were consistent and creating the corresponding ComposerSort tags, for a collection of several hundred albums, was largely complete in a single evening. Errors and inconsistencies are easy to spot in the MinimServer browsing sequence, which identifies missing or mis-spelt names and the like. The standard workflow can then be used to go back and fix the errors, something that may not be quite so easy with a bulk tagging script.

David
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03-08-2017, 21:08
Post: #8
RE: Best method for "firstname lastname" to "lastname, firstname"
(03-08-2017 18:35)DavidHB Wrote:  
(03-08-2017 10:17)jcdrisco Wrote:  Thanks, all, for your responses. I have thousands of files and am looking for a way to do a batch change, supplemented by editing for special cases. I may try creating a composerSort tag from my current composer tag, batch changing that tag to reverse order, and then manually edit the exceptions.

My idea was at first very similar, but I came to the conclusion that it wasn't really worth the effort of developing and testing a script that would really only be used once. Rather, putting the effort into creating a workflow that would work as well for additions to the collection as for the initial bulk tagging process was what paid off for me.

Quite a bit of the effort was making sure that I was using a folder structure that would make it easier to work on sensible groupings of folders in the MP3Tag grid. The top layer of my folder structure is a set of very broadly-based Genres (Classical, Pop, Jazz, Folk, World etc.), within which there can be different sub-categories. So the second level division of the Classical genre (much the biggest in my collection) is by composer; in the other genres, artist is the second level.

All of this made it much easier to use the techniques I have already described. The process of making sure that composer names were consistent and creating the corresponding ComposerSort tags, for a collection of several hundred albums, was largely complete in a single evening. Errors and inconsistencies are easy to spot in the MinimServer browsing sequence, which identifies missing or mis-spelt names and the like. The standard workflow can then be used to go back and fix the errors, something that may not be quite so easy with a bulk tagging script.

David

I found scripts that might have worked by searching, but my limited experience with mp3tag made them difficult to apply. Some of my files already had ComperSort populated in the appropriate way, and I'm finding it is easier just to apply those throughout than learning the script. FOr others reference, as per your suggestion I indeed have added "Composer Sort" on the left side; am selecting all files from a particular composer; and am either typing in or selecting "lastname, firstname"
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