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BBC R3 Lossless Stream
01-08-2017, 12:40
Post: #61
RE: BBC R3 Lossless Stream
Hi all,

I have been following the thread and got round to trying it out yesterday. I have a ADS and a Raspberry Pi/IQ DAC. I've created the m3u files for BBC 3 Lossless but when I try to play via either Kazoo or Bubble UPNPDS nothing happens. The link states 'client_manifest.mpd'. There are no errors either in the Control Point or in the log in Minimwatch, I've tried the transcode options as suggested using either flac:wav and flac:wav24 including with the 2GB workaround to no effect.

Any ideas? Minimserver is running on a QNAP TS253 Pro.

Thanks David

(27-07-2017 21:16)simoncn Wrote:  Owing to popular demand (four more PMs in the last few hours), I have decided to publish the instructions for using the prototype.

Regarding the need for WAV transcoding, many players can play the FLAC stream without transcoding but a few players cannot. Even if transcoding isn't necessary, it might be desirable because of possible improvements to sound quality. In the instructions below, I have explained how to play the stream with and without WAV transcoding so that people can choose whether or not to enable it.

To try the prototype test build, do the following:

1) In the Packages tab of the Properties window, type the following in the 'Other package' field: minimserver-0.8-update-102

2) Click Install and follow the prompts to install the package

3) When installation is complete, click Relaunch

4) Repeat the above for this package: minimstreamer-0.7.0.1

5) Add the following lines to a .m3u radio playlist:
#EXTINF:-1,[*R3DASH;flac] BBC Radio 3 lossless
http://vs-dash-ww-rd-live.bbcfmt.hs.llnwd.net/al/lossless/client_manifest.mpd

6) If WAV transcoding is required (or desired), set the stream.transcode property in the System tab of the Properties window to the following: flac:wav24

7) Rescan the library

8) You should now be able to play the lossless stream to your renderer

Please report any problems by posting to this thread.
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01-08-2017, 13:15
Post: #62
RE: BBC R3 Lossless Stream
(01-08-2017 12:10)Cebolla Wrote:  Would it be possible for you to update the prototype to also support MPEG-DASH AAC at some point?

This might be more difficult than supporting MPEG-DASH FLAC, depending on the exact format of the MPEG-DASH AAC stream and the capabilities of the renderer. I will look at the stream format when the stream becomes available this evening.
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01-08-2017, 13:40 (This post was last modified: 01-08-2017 13:44 by DavidHB.)
Post: #63
RE: BBC R3 Lossless Stream
(01-08-2017 12:10)Cebolla Wrote:  The BBC are currently trialing a number of BBC Proms, live, in experimental '3D' binaural sound. The next one is this evening's Prom 23, Handel - Israel in Egypt:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/taster/projects/pro...l-2017/try

The actual MPEG-DASH stream is:
https://vs-dash-ww-rd-live.bbcfmt.hs.lln...nifest.mpd
It is currently unavailable, but starts streaming just before the start of the advertised prom and stops just after the prom finishes, I believe.

Unfortunately, the stream appears to be in regular MPEG-DASH AAC (320kbps), rather than the experimental lossless MPEG-DASH FLAC, which the MinimServer/MinimStreamer prototype doesn't currently appear to support.

As advised by Simon I am using the URL

'http://vs-dash-ww-rd-live.bbcfmt.hs.llnwd.net/al/lossless/client_manifest.mpd ; the ' at the beginning is only there to prevent the forum from creating a link

I listened to last nights Prom using that URL, and am listening to it now. If I listen to it un-transcoded, Kazoo reports that the stream is FLAC 48kHz/16 bits. If I transcode it, the stream as seen by Kazoo is of course WAV24.

David
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01-08-2017, 14:12
Post: #64
RE: BBC R3 Lossless Stream
(01-08-2017 12:40)dround Wrote:  Hi all,

I have been following the thread and got round to trying it out yesterday. I have a ADS and a Raspberry Pi/IQ DAC. I've created the m3u files for BBC 3 Lossless but when I try to play via either Kazoo or Bubble UPNPDS nothing happens. The link states 'client_manifest.mpd'. There are no errors either in the Control Point or in the log in Minimwatch, I've tried the transcode options as suggested using either flac:wav and flac:wav24 including with the 2GB workaround to no effect.

Any ideas? Minimserver is running on a QNAP TS253 Pro.

Thanks David

Does your .m3u file have #EXTM3U as the first line?
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01-08-2017, 15:19
Post: #65
RE: BBC R3 Lossless Stream
(01-08-2017 13:40)DavidHB Wrote:  
(01-08-2017 12:10)Cebolla Wrote:  The BBC are currently trialing a number of BBC Proms, live, in experimental '3D' binaural sound. The next one is this evening's Prom 23, Handel - Israel in Egypt:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/taster/projects/pro...l-2017/try

The actual MPEG-DASH stream is:
https://vs-dash-ww-rd-live.bbcfmt.hs.lln...nifest.mpd
It is currently unavailable, but starts streaming just before the start of the advertised prom and stops just after the prom finishes, I believe.

Unfortunately, the stream appears to be in regular MPEG-DASH AAC (320kbps), rather than the experimental lossless MPEG-DASH FLAC, which the MinimServer/MinimStreamer prototype doesn't currently appear to support.

As advised by Simon I am using the URL

'http://vs-dash-ww-rd-live.bbcfmt.hs.llnwd.net/al/lossless/client_manifest.mpd ; the ' at the beginning is only there to prevent the forum from creating a link

I listened to last nights Prom using that URL, and am listening to it now. If I listen to it un-transcoded, Kazoo reports that the stream is FLAC 48kHz/16 bits. If I transcode it, the stream as seen by Kazoo is of course WAV24.

David
Did you mean this as a reply to @dround's post rather than mine?
Otherwise I don't know what you're getting at.
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01-08-2017, 15:21
Post: #66
RE: BBC R3 Lossless Stream
(01-08-2017 13:15)simoncn Wrote:  
(01-08-2017 12:10)Cebolla Wrote:  Would it be possible for you to update the prototype to also support MPEG-DASH AAC at some point?

This might be more difficult than supporting MPEG-DASH FLAC, depending on the exact format of the MPEG-DASH AAC stream and the capabilities of the renderer. I will look at the stream format when the stream becomes available this evening.
Ok thanks Simon, much appreciated.
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01-08-2017, 16:20 (This post was last modified: 01-08-2017 16:21 by Martin H.)
Post: #67
RE: BBC R3 Lossless Stream
I have been following this thread with interest and although not being a classical 'buff' I was intrigued to see how things progressed. It seemed that there could be a 'working things out' phase and so I left it until today to try but everything has gone extremely smoothly and here I am sitting listening and enchanted by Handel's Dixit Dominus (according to the schedule at least). Wonderful work by all concerned to track down and thank you Simon once again!

I don't ever transcode anything (from my NAS etc.) is there a material difference to be heard by doing this?

Edit - Linn Klimax Katalyst
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01-08-2017, 18:02
Post: #68
RE: BBC R3 Lossless Stream
(01-08-2017 16:20)Martin H Wrote:  I have been following this thread with interest and although not being a classical 'buff' I was intrigued to see how things progressed. It seemed that there could be a 'working things out' phase and so I left it until today to try but everything has gone extremely smoothly and here I am sitting listening and enchanted by Handel's Dixit Dominus (according to the schedule at least).

Yes, I really enjoyed that performance as well. The work dates from Handel's Italian period (before he came to England); he was only 22 when he wrote it. John Eliot Gardiner and his team put a lot of life and fun into the music, even though it is a sacred piece, and I'm sure that that is how it's meant to be performed

(01-08-2017 16:20)Martin H Wrote:  I don't ever transcode anything (from my NAS etc.) is there a material difference to be heard by doing this?

In my view, yes. With broadcast material, the sound seems a bit more spacious and natural, and correspondingly easy to listen to (you may recall that I have an Akurate Exakt system with Akubariks).

David
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01-08-2017, 18:20
Post: #69
RE: BBC R3 Lossless Stream
(01-08-2017 14:12)simoncn Wrote:  
(01-08-2017 12:40)dround Wrote:  Hi all,

I have been following the thread and got round to trying it out yesterday. I have a ADS and a Raspberry Pi/IQ DAC. I've created the m3u files for BBC 3 Lossless but when I try to play via either Kazoo or Bubble UPNPDS nothing happens. The link states 'client_manifest.mpd'. There are no errors either in the Control Point or in the log in Minimwatch, I've tried the transcode options as suggested using either flac:wav and flac:wav24 including with the 2GB workaround to no effect.

Any ideas? Minimserver is running on a QNAP TS253 Pro.

Thanks David

Does your .m3u file have #EXTM3U as the first line?

Thanks for coming back Simon. Yes it does - this is a text from the file

#EXTINF:-1,[*R3DASH;flac] BBC Radio 3 lossless
http://vs-dash-ww-rd-live.bbcfmt.hs.llnw...nifest.mpd
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01-08-2017, 18:25
Post: #70
RE: BBC R3 Lossless Stream
(01-08-2017 18:20)dround Wrote:  Thanks for coming back Simon. Yes it does - this is a text from the file

#EXTINF:-1,[*R3DASH;flac] BBC Radio 3 lossless
http://vs-dash-ww-rd-live.bbcfmt.hs.llnw...nifest.mpd

The file should also have #EXTM3U as the first line. This is required for all MinimStreamer radio playlists.
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