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dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
07-12-2016, 21:30
Post: #31
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
(07-12-2016 21:06)simoncn Wrote:  I am using the tool "Developer Works for UPnP Technology". See this page for a download link (Windows only).

After installing this, launch Device Spy. You should see the Sonore listed under Devices. Click this, then select the ConnectionManager service. Double-click GetProtocolInfo and click Invoke. Expand the Sink field to see the full contents, then copy the data and paste it into a post here.

Hi Simon,
I downloaded and installed the application, v0.0.69 from the web site.
The installer installs:
AV Media Controller
AV Media Renderer
AV Media Serverr
AV Media Wizard
Device Builder
Device Relay
Device Sniffer
Device Spy
Device Validator
Network Light
Service Author
I Started Device Spy and can click which open some subsections under the device.
I do not see ConnectionManager.
Is it part of Device Spy or one of the other applications?
Chip
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07-12-2016, 22:02
Post: #32
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
Device Spy should list the Sonore under Devices. When you expand this, you should see a list of services similar to the following:

urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:AVTransport:1
urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ConnectionManager:1
urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:RenderingControl:1

If you are not seeing this, what are you seeing?
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07-12-2016, 22:39 (This post was last modified: 07-12-2016 23:07 by chip.)
Post: #33
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
I see Sonore under devices. I have two entries one for the Sonore device:
Audio Renderer-143
Audio Renderer-143 (Open Home)
I am also running BubbleUPnP Server on my NAS with MinimServer.
I have only been using the Open Home version in BubbleUPnP control point.

When I open AudioRenderer-143 (Open Home)
urn:av-openhome-org:service:Credentials:1
urn:av-openhome-org:service:Info:1
urn:av-openhome-org:service:Playlist:1
urn:av-openhome-org:service:Product:1
urn:av-openhome-org:service:Time:1
urn:av-openhome-org:service:Volume:1
And each of these subsections opens to more values.

Now I just clicked Audio Renderer-143 and I see
urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:AVTransport:1
urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:ConnectionManager:1
urn:schemas-upnp-org:service:RenderingControl:1

When I use the non-OH version I can see Connection Manager and this is the output of the (string) Sink box:
http-get:*:audio/flac:*,http-get:*:audio/x-flac:*,http-get:*:audio/wav:*,http-get:*:audio/x-wav:*,http-get:*:audio/mpeg3:*,http-get:*:audio/mp3:*,http-get:*:audio/x-aiff:*,http-get:*:audio/aiff:*,http-get:*:audio/aac:*,http-get:*:audio/mp4:*,http-get:*:audio/m4a:*,http-get:*:audio/dsd,http-get:*:audio/dsf,http-get:*:audio/dff

Is this what you are looking for to help me?
What does this tell us?

Chip
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07-12-2016, 23:21
Post: #34
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
Thanks for posting this information. The Sonore is telling BubbleUPnP that it can play audio/dsf, audio/dff and audio/dsd. These MIME types are not correct according to the MIME rules for type registration. MinimServer is sending DSF streams as audio/x-dsf, which is correct according to the MIME rules.

Because of this mismatch, BubbleUPnP should be selecting the WAV or DoP/WAV stream in all cases. (The Sonore advertises this correctly.) It is possible that BubbleUPnP might have special code to treat audio/x-dsf as compatible with audio/dsf but this wouldn't explain everything you are seeing.

I will contact the author of BubbleUPnP and ask whether he can provide any information to help explain what is happening.
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07-12-2016, 23:46
Post: #35
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
So the Sonore device should be responding with:
audio/x-dsd
audio/x-dsf
audio/x-dff
according to the MIME Type specification?

If this is correct I can send a question to Sonore also to see what they have to say.
Can you guide me to a link that explains this in case they ask?
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08-12-2016, 08:29
Post: #36
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
There is a list of registered MIME types on this page. For streams that match one of these types, the registered type should be used.

Many of the audio streams in common use don't match any registered type. In this case, the convention has been that a type starting with 'x-' should be used to indicate that the type is not one of the official ones. There is no list of the 'x-' types and these become "standard" by accepted usage rather than by inclusion in a formal list. This approach was recommended by the MIME type specification for many years (see section 2.1 of this document) but the recommendation has now been changed (see this document), so I should not have described Sonore's choice as "not correct" in my previous post.

Unfortunately, the water has become quite muddy over the years with different type names used by different products for the same stream, including an apparently random mixture of types with and without the 'x-' prefix. This has caused compatibility problems between streamers and renderers and is a generally unsatisfactory situation.

Each stream advertised by the server has a single MIME type. However, the renderer can advertise compatibility with multiple MIME types for the same stream type. Sonore is already doing this for some streams (e.g., audio/flac and audio/x-flac). The fix for Sonore is therefore not to change the existing DSD types such as audio/dsf but to add new types such as audio/x-dsf alongside existing types such as audio/dsf.
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08-12-2016, 13:56 (This post was last modified: 08-12-2016 13:59 by bubbleguuum.)
Post: #37
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
BubbleUPnP when playing to an OpenHome renderer will always send the first stream resource to the OH renderer without doing
any mime-type check (this is an anomaly that I should fix).
Thus if the Sonore OH renderer advertises "audio/dsd", "audio/dsf", "audio/dff" but MinimServer uses the correct "x-" versions of these mime-types,
then theorically the Sonore should still play the DSD version of the stream if it comes as first res in the DIDL-Lite sent by MinimServer (and the Sonore renderer doesn't trip
on the x- mime-type).

Now if you play that same track to the Sonore UPnP AV renderer and mime-type check is enabled, BubbleUPnP will play the wav stream as the mime-type cannot be matched between MinimServer and Sonore for DSD. For some mime-types, BubbleUPnP add missing aliases (eg if a renderer advertises audio/flac, BubbleUPnP will add audio/x-flac. But not for DSD mime-types where BubbleUPnP only recognizes the x- versions. I could probably add the non x- versions as aliases as I don't think it would cause any problems.
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08-12-2016, 17:15
Post: #38
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
Thanks bubbleguum for this information. I think the results can be explained as follows:

"dsf:-/dopwav" plays DSD64 files as PCM24/176.4 and DSD128 files as DSD128
"dsf:-/wav24;176" plays DSD64 files as PCM24/176.4 and DSD128 files as DSD128


There are two streams. When playing a DSD64 stream, BubbleUPnP is playing to the non-OpenHome renderer. Because of the compatibility check, BubbleUPnP selects the second (transcoded) stream. When playing a DSD128 stream, BubbleUPnP is playing to the OpenHome renderer. Because there is no compatibility check, BubbleUPnP selects the first (untranscoded) stream.

<empty, no values> plays DSD64 files as DSD64 and DSD128 files as DSD128

There is only one stream and BubbleUPnP is playing to the OpenHome renderer. Because there is no compatibility check, BubbleUPnP selects the single (untranscoded) stream.

The problem with this explanation is that it isn't clear why BubbleUPnP would select different renderers for different stream types and/or the one-stream vs two-stream scenarios.
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08-12-2016, 17:50
Post: #39
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
(08-12-2016 17:15)simoncn Wrote:  The problem with this explanation is that it isn't clear why BubbleUPnP would select different renderers for different stream types and/or the one-stream vs two-stream scenarios.

BubbleUPnP doesn't select a renderer: it always play to the renderer manually selected by the user.
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08-12-2016, 19:32
Post: #40
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
(08-12-2016 17:50)bubbleguuum Wrote:  BubbleUPnP doesn't select a renderer: it always play to the renderer manually selected by the user.

Thanks! Looking back at this post, I see that the user has selected the OpenHome version in all cases, so my explanation is clearly wrong. Sad

The user also said he is running BubbleUPnP Server. Could this be affecting the behaviour?
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