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dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
17-08-2016, 09:21
Post: #1
dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
Hello !

As there is now a way to rip SACD to DSD files, I will start ripping mines.

One of my players can't read DSD (Linn...), but fortunatly Minimserver can convert on the fly to wav (dsf:wav24;176 if I remember correctly, to have frequencies being a multiple).

Somewhere on this forum, Simon said it requires a lot of CPU.

Question : can it work on a DS415play (Dual Core 1.6Ghz Cpu ?)

I am away from home and can't test as of now.

Thx

PS my other player can read DSD (OPPO). But I don't think there is a way to attach the conversion to a given renderer ? In that case it means putting on/off the conversion parameter according to the renderer I use ?
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17-08-2016, 09:39
Post: #2
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
(17-08-2016 09:21)lyapounov Wrote:  Hello !

As there is now a way to rip SACD to DSD files, I will start ripping mines.

One of my players can't read DSD (Linn...), but fortunatly Minimserver can convert on the fly to wav (dsf:wav24;176 if I remember correctly, to have frequencies being a multiple).

Somewhere on this forum, Simon said it requires a lot of CPU.

Question : can it work on a DS415play (Dual Core 1.6Ghz Cpu ?)

This should be fine.

Quote:PS my other player can read DSD (OPPO). But I don't think there is a way to attach the conversion to a given renderer ? In that case it means putting on/off the conversion parameter according to the renderer I use ?

The UPnP architecture provides a way to do this but it requires cooperation from the control point and the renderer.

Setting the stream.transcode property to dsf:-/wav24;176 causes MinimServer to advertise two resource streams to the control point. The first stream has MIME type audio/x-dsf and the second stream has MIME type audio/x-wav.

If the OPPO advertises to the control point that it supports audio/x-dsf, the control point should play the audio/x-dsf stream on the OPPO. If the Linn advertises that it supports audio/x-wav but not audio/x-dsf, the control point should play the audio/x-wav stream on the Linn.
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17-08-2016, 13:05
Post: #3
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
(17-08-2016 09:39)simoncn Wrote:  
Quote:PS my other player can read DSD (OPPO). But I don't think there is a way to attach the conversion to a given renderer ? In that case it means putting on/off the conversion parameter according to the renderer I use ?

The UPnP architecture provides a way to do this but it requires cooperation from the control point and the renderer.

Setting the stream.transcode property to dsf:-/wav24;176 causes MinimServer to advertise two resource streams to the control point. The first stream has MIME type audio/x-dsf and the second stream has MIME type audio/x-wav.

If the OPPO advertises to the control point that it supports audio/x-dsf, the control point should play the audio/x-dsf stream on the OPPO. If the Linn advertises that it supports audio/x-wav but not audio/x-dsf, the control point should play the audio/x-wav stream on the Linn.


Thank you so much Simon.

I will check when back home. The Oppo (BDP-105) is not really 100% compliant. My control point is Lumin app, and the Oppo is not recognized; while the klimax is. I therefore use the oppo app when browsing and listening, which is a very rudimentary one.

BTW I must confess that the BDP-105 (which has a good audio stage) on DSD is quite good. For sure, between BDP105 on DSD, and klimax DS on flac, the quality ratio (whatever that means) is better that the price ratio (one to ten).

Oh well, at that level, I think only logarithmic scales work...


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15-09-2016, 18:00
Post: #4
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
(17-08-2016 09:39)simoncn Wrote:  The UPnP architecture provides a way to do this but it requires cooperation from the control point and the renderer.

Setting the stream.transcode property to dsf:-/wav24;176 causes MinimServer to advertise two resource streams to the control point. The first stream has MIME type audio/x-dsf and the second stream has MIME type audio/x-wav.

If the OPPO advertises to the control point that it supports audio/x-dsf, the control point should play the audio/x-dsf stream on the OPPO. If the Linn advertises that it supports audio/x-wav but not audio/x-dsf, the control point should play the audio/x-wav stream on the Linn.

Dear Simon

now that I am back home, I tried what you said, and it does not work properly

I have two renderer : Linn klimax, and oppo BDP-105 (accessible using bubbleUpnp server)

I tested on dsf file
dsf:-/wav24;176 :
- Oppo reads the dsd perfectly (lumin app displays 2.822 MHz 1 bit), but not the linn (Lumin app displays nothing, the app switches all tracks withour playing)

dsf:wav24;176
- both the oppo and the klimax reads, but it is transcoded for both at 24/176

I have tried to change the value of 176, even dsf:-/wav24 without a frequency, but it just scrolls on the Linn.

The stream.converter is ffmpeg, the nas is a synology DS415 play

Thx for the help !

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15-09-2016, 18:08
Post: #5
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
This is a problem with your control point. The control point should discover from each renderer what MIME types it supports and send the first compatible MIME type to the renderer. This works correctly in Linn Kinsky and in BubbleUPnP (if the relevant option is enabled).

In your specific case, the Oppo should inform the control point that it supports audio/x-dsf and audio/x-wav. The Linn should inform the control point that it supports audio/x-wav. With this information, the control point can do the right thing for both renderers.

I suggest you report this as a bug to the authors of your control point.
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16-09-2016, 07:55
Post: #6
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
Thank you Simon

I will, but I want to be sure to understand :

dsf:wav24;176
it works fine on both Linn and Oppo.

dsf:-/wav24;176
works fine on the oppo (dsf file goes through) but the Linn refuses

flac:wav24 works perfectly on both.

So, it seems they both publish correctly, because it is only when I add -/ that the Linn refuses ???

What is the meaning of -/ ? Have not seen on your documentation.

Thx again and sorry for my poor understanding
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16-09-2016, 18:01
Post: #7
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
OK, I got now the -/ syntax

And I understand why it works with dsf:wav24 and not with dsf:-/wav24

thx
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20-09-2016, 07:09
Post: #8
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
An update : all control point I have (Lumin, Kazoo, PlugPlayer) have the same bug, skipping through files when it is a dsf; the only one which does not have the bug it is the good old Kinsky !

So it means I have to tell all of them there is an issue ?
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20-09-2016, 12:32
Post: #9
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
(20-09-2016 07:09)lyapounov Wrote:  An update : all control point I have (Lumin, Kazoo, PlugPlayer) have the same bug, skipping through files when it is a dsf; the only one which does not have the bug it is the good old Kinsky !

So it means I have to tell all of them there is an issue ?

Doubtful. I think the problem is with your Linn. Your control points work fine for the Oppo, it is the Linn Klimax that gives an issue. I don't think it properly advertises its MIME type to the control point. The only case where is does is when you use the Kinsky control point, which could be due to some communication between renderer and control point that goes outside of UPnP.
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20-09-2016, 13:51
Post: #10
RE: dsf to wav : what CPU power ?
(20-09-2016 12:32)Pepsican Wrote:  Doubtful. I think the problem is with your Linn. Your control points work fine for the Oppo, it is the Linn Klimax that gives an issue. I don't think it properly advertises its MIME type to the control point. The only case where is does is when you use the Kinsky control point, which could be due to some communication between renderer and control point that goes outside of UPnP.

I don't think the problem is with the Linn. The Linn would definitely not be advertising that it can play DSF files.

I think the difference is that Kinsky implements the UPnP protocol correctly (by not sending a stream to a renderer that doesn't advertise support for the stream type) and the others do not.

BubbleUPnP provides both options (to use the renderer UPnP information or ignore the UPnP renderer information), controlled by a user setting.
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