Question about Group tag and track renumbering

[Servatius]

Hi Simon,

I have been using the UPnP plugin of foobar 2000 for a couple of years, which is quite nice because it allows to use scripts for configuring the media tree with virtual folders. But as I don't want to switch my PC on when I listen to music, I began to look for a UPnP server that can run on the Raspberry Pi. This was a frustrating experience, as the servers I tried were just not suitable for classical music or too buggy.

But then I got across MinimServer. I have to say that I'm really impressed. I think MinimServer is the only serious UPnP server for classical music. The feature of intelligent browsing is outstanding. So MinimServer = MaximFlexibility! Thank you very much for building this software!

I am still in the process of experimenting and thinking how to change my tags. My first question is about the Group tag.

As I have tagged everything with a WORK tag and, when appropriate, a MOVEMENT tag, I started with a tag alias of Work:Group. But this adds single-element groups for all works without movements. So now I think it is better to set explicit GROUP tags on my media files. This can easily be done with the foobar2000 Masstagger plugin by copying WORK to GROUP if MOVEMENT is set.

I made an experiment by setting the DISCSUBTITLE flag. I tested this with the album "Arthur Rubinstein - The Chopin Collection" which consists of 11 discs. There are 2 discs with Nocturnes, 2 with Mazurkas, 1 with Polonaises, 1 with Waltzes, 1 with the Preludes op. 28. I have set the WORK and GROUP tags to consistent values for all tracks of those discs, e.g. both to "Nocturnes" on disc 1 and 2. There are other discs which contain multiple works. For them, I see multiple groups under their disc section in the album view, for the Polonaises, Waltzes, Preludes, I see just one group (as expected), but for the Nocturnes and Mazurkas discs, I see no group at all but huge lists of tracks instead. The log says: "Error: group spans multiple discs: Nocturnes in album The Chopin Collection", and the same for the Mazurkas.

Would it be possible that MinimServer only shows a warning in this case and splits the group "Nocturnes" into two equally named subgroups, one for each disc, if DiscSubtitle is used?

Another solution for this situation would be to add a GROUPMATCH tag as discussed here: I could add GroupMatch.default={DiscNumber} to tagValue in order to show a separate group of Nocturnes in both disc sections, or I could use DiscSubtitle:nil in aliasTags instead in order to suppress the disc sections and get a single group of Nocturnes with track renumbering across both discs. Is the GroupMatch tag still on the todo list?

I got somewhat confused by the section about track renumbering in the user guide because the Naim App always shows track numbers starting at 01 in each group - even for the second group of a single-disc album. But then I realized that BubbleUPnP does not show these track numbers, and this might just be a Naim thing. So is the track renumbering only used for sorting? And if I don't use something like Title.displayFormat={$DiscNumber^^.$TrackNumber^$Title} (which seems to use the original track number), will the track number be sent separately to the CP at all?

Servatius

[simoncn]

A simple way to solve this grouping problem would be to remove the DISCSUBTITLE tags. This will allow MinimServer to do disc merging and track renumbering and grouping should then work as you want. With this approach, you would see the contents of this album subdivided by your chosen groupings instead of being subdivided into physical CDs. Is there some reason why you want to see a subdivision into physical CDs when viewing the contents of this album?

[Servatius]

(09-05-2016 17:33)simoncn Wrote:  A simple way to solve this grouping problem would be to remove the DISCSUBTITLE tags. This will allow MinimServer to do disc merging and track renumbering and grouping should then work as you want. With this approach, you would see the contents of this album subdivided by your chosen groupings instead of being subdivided into physical CDs. Is there some reason why you want to see a subdivision into physical CDs when viewing the contents of this album?

No, I just misunderstood the section about track renumbering in the user guide and tried to avoid it in order to match the disc and track numbers more easily with the booklet. I will remove the DISCSUBTITLE tags.

I have now the understanding that the track renumbering is only for sorting but track numbers are not passed to the control point, and if I want to see the original disc and track numbers I have to include them myself in the group name or track title, e.g. by using Group.displayFormat={$Group^$DiscNumber^ [Disc ^]} or Title.displayFormat={$DiscNumber^^.$TrackNumber^^: $Title}.

Is this correct?

[simoncn]

(09-05-2016 22:51)Servatius Wrote:  No, I just misunderstood the section about track renumbering in the user guide and tried to avoid it in order to match the disc and track numbers more easily with the booklet. I will remove the DISCSUBTITLE tags.

I have now the understanding that the track renumbering is only for sorting but track numbers are not passed to the control point, and if I want to see the original disc and track numbers I have to include them myself in the group name or track title, e.g. by using Group.displayFormat={$Group^$DiscNumber^ [Disc ^]} or Title.displayFormat={$DiscNumber^^.$TrackNumber^^: $Title}.[/size]

Is this correct?

MinimServer uses the UPnP protocol to send track numbers to the control point. This information is sent for both groups and tracks. If you are using track renumbering, the track numbers sent to the control point won't match those in the booklet because they use a single increasing sequence for the complete album. If you use displayFormat to send track numbering information, the numbers will match the booklet because the $tracknumber and $discnumber entries in the format string are replaced by the original tagged values.

Unfotunately, most control points don't display the track number that MinimServer sends for a group. You can use Group.displayFormat if you want the group entry to include a track number. The track numbers for the tracks within the group should be displayed correctly by most control points.

The UPnP protocol doesn't support sending disc numbers to the control point, so the only way to display these in the track information is by using Title.displayFormat.

[Servatius]

(10-05-2016 22:19)simoncn Wrote:  MinimServer uses the UPnP protocol to send track numbers to the control point. This information is sent for both groups and tracks. If you are using track renumbering, the track numbers sent to the control point won't match those in the booklet because they use a single increasing sequence for the complete album. If you use displayFormat to send track numbering information, the numbers will match the booklet because the $tracknumber and $discnumber entries in the format string are replaced by the original tagged values.

Fine, this means I can show or hide the original numbers via displayFormat and don't even have to retag my music files when I change my mind.

(10-05-2016 22:19)simoncn Wrote:  Unfotunately, most control points don't display the track number that MinimServer sends for a group. You can use Group.displayFormat if you want the group entry to include a track number. The track numbers for the tracks within the group should be displayed correctly by most control points.

BubbleUPnP (Android) shows the track numbers sent by MinimServer when using "Show metadata" from the context menu on the track, and it shows the track count with "Show metadata" on the group. UPnPlay (Android) shows the track number for each track (below the track title), and for a group it shows both the count of tracks in the group and the first track number for the group below the group title. The Naim app ignores the track numbers and does its own numbering always starting at 01 in each group.

(10-05-2016 22:19)simoncn Wrote:  The UPnP protocol doesn't support sending disc numbers to the control point, so the only way to display these in the track information is by using Title.displayFormat.

When doing so it is best not to set the DISCNUMBER tag for single-discs albums, because the disc number is then only shown for tracks on multi-disc albums.

Thangs a lot for your explanations.