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DSD Playback - Printable Version

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DSD Playback - AntonD - 07-03-2015 09:39

Hi Forum members

I am interested in this format and would like to experiment further.
I know where I can get sample data so thats not a problem.
I have some general questions though to the forum members delving into DSD.

My streamer supports DSD 64 over DoP and maximum resolution of 192 24bit, so I understand MinimStreamer will transcode this to WAV for me. <dopwav>

For the transcode option, should I be setting the output to <wav24;176> to get the best sound/conversion from my DSD 64 material?

If I understand correctly, FFmpeg will only do the above for dsf, NOT dff?

What results are members getting with DSD say over normal 192 24bit material from a sound quality point of view?

Many thanks in advance for your feedback.

Best Regards, Anton


RE: DSD Playback - simoncn - 07-03-2015 10:03

(07-03-2015 09:39)AntonD Wrote:  Hi Forum members

I am interested in this format and would like to experiment further.
I know where I can get sample data so thats not a problem.
I have some general questions though to the forum members delving into DSD.

My streamer supports DSD 64 over DoP and maximum resolution of 192 24bit, so I understand MinimStreamer will transcode this to WAV for me. <dopwav>

For the transcode option, should I be setting the output to <wav24;176> to get the best sound/conversion from my DSD 64 material?

If I understand correctly, FFmpeg will only do the above for dsf, NOT dff?

What results are members getting with DSD say over normal 192 24bit material from a sound quality point of view?

Many thanks in advance for your feedback.

Best Regards, Anton

I think you will get better results by using DoP (dsf:dopwav and dff:dopwav). The new dsf:wav transcoding is intended for people who are using equipment that doesn't support DoP.

If you would like to do a comparison, you should use dsf:wav24;176. You can't do this with dff files. I would be interested to hear how you feel the sound from this compares with using DoP.


RE: DSD Playback - AntonD - 07-03-2015 10:26

(07-03-2015 10:03)simoncn Wrote:  
(07-03-2015 09:39)AntonD Wrote:  Hi Forum members

I am interested in this format and would like to experiment further.
I know where I can get sample data so thats not a problem.
I have some general questions though to the forum members delving into DSD.

My streamer supports DSD 64 over DoP and maximum resolution of 192 24bit, so I understand MinimStreamer will transcode this to WAV for me. <dopwav>

For the transcode option, should I be setting the output to <wav24;176> to get the best sound/conversion from my DSD 64 material?

If I understand correctly, FFmpeg will only do the above for dsf, NOT dff?

What results are members getting with DSD say over normal 192 24bit material from a sound quality point of view?

Many thanks in advance for your feedback.

Best Regards, Anton

I think you will get better results by using DoP (dsf:dopwav and dff:dopwav). The new dsf:wav transcoding is intended for people who are using equipment that doesn't support DoP.

If you would like to do a comparison, you should use dsf:wav24;176. You can't do this with dff files. I would be interested to hear how you feel the sound from this compares with using DoP.

Hi Simon

I hope you are well.

I see, so I do not have to use the transcode option in my case?

I am also interested to see what the fuss is about DSD playback. I will post my results/thoughts once I get around to it.

Cheers, Anton


RE: DSD Playback - simoncn - 07-03-2015 10:47

(07-03-2015 10:26)AntonD Wrote:  Hi Simon

I hope you are well.

I see, so I do not have to use the transcode option in my case?

I am also interested to see what the fuss is about DSD playback. I will post my results/thoughts once I get around to it.

Cheers, Anton

For DoP output, you need to set stream.transcode to dsf:dopwav, dff:dopwav.

Edit: corrected typo in above line

Looking forward to hearing your results and thoughts!


RE: DSD Playback - beckphotonik - 07-03-2015 12:21

(07-03-2015 10:47)simoncn Wrote:  
(07-03-2015 10:26)AntonD Wrote:  Hi Simon

I hope you are well.

I see, so I do not have to use the transcode option in my case?

I am also interested to see what the fuss is about DSD playback. I will post my results/thoughts once I get around to it.

Cheers, Anton

For DoP output, you need to set stream.transcode to dsf:dopwav, dsf:dopwav.

Looking forward to hearing your results and thoughts!

Anton, I believe your streamer is the same as mine. The dsf:dopwav, as Simon has indicated, is all you need. My streamer is a bit critical on network issues when playing DSD but when it works it is remarkable. Even 24/192 sounds a bit constrained compared to DSD64, it is almost like an analogue experience. You will probably find the output level is lower than pcm and I would be interested to know how resilient your streamer is when playing DSD.


RE: DSD Playback - AntonD - 07-03-2015 12:45

(07-03-2015 12:21)beckphotonik Wrote:  
(07-03-2015 10:47)simoncn Wrote:  
(07-03-2015 10:26)AntonD Wrote:  Hi Simon

I hope you are well.

I see, so I do not have to use the transcode option in my case?

I am also interested to see what the fuss is about DSD playback. I will post my results/thoughts once I get around to it.

Cheers, Anton

For DoP output, you need to set stream.transcode to dsf:dopwav, dsf:dopwav.

Looking forward to hearing your results and thoughts!

Anton, I believe your streamer is the same as mine. The dsf:dopwav, as Simon has indicated, is all you need. My streamer is a bit critical on network issues when playing DSD but when it works it is remarkable. Even 24/192 sounds a bit constrained compared to DSD64, it is almost like an analogue experience. You will probably find the output level is lower than pcm and I would be interested to know how resilient your streamer is when playing DSD.

Hi, yes we have the same streamer.
Thanks for the additional info above. Ok, I have my downloads from Native DSD, in dsf 64 format so will now install MinimStreamer and see what happens.
This will be interesting as I have approx. 80 albums based around 24/96 and 24/192 and most of them are quite amazing during playback.
I will update the post with my findings.
Anton


RE: DSD Playback - AntonD - 07-03-2015 13:49

Update!
ok, dsf tracks updated metadata and copied to NAS, check.
MinimStreamer installed, transcode option set to dsf:dopwav, dff:dopwav, check.
rescan library, no errors in logs, check.
launch control point, select album and play, check.

Sounds very good, I see the bit rate coming through @ WAV 24/176
2nd track started and then started to splutter, stop/start Confused
So, started to play an existing 24/192 and monitor Synology stats. LAN data fluctuating around 1.1 Mbps.
Ok, back to DSD album and played another track. LAN data fluctuating around 1.3 Mbps. Sounds very good.
next track starts and the splutter, stop/start begins again, Huh

Everything is wired via a Netgear switch and BT HH5. I have never had an issue with my 24/192 material and all albums play seamlessly. So is something else happening whilst trying to play DSD?

data transfer seems about the same. I was impressed with the Synology stats though, 11% CPU and 22% RAM whilst playing DSD.

I will try again and see what happens. Initial thoughts on sound quality was very good. However, its already very good with my HD and Red Book material.

To be continued...


RE: DSD Playback - beckphotonik - 07-03-2015 14:03

(07-03-2015 13:49)AntonD Wrote:  Update!
ok, dsf tracks updated metadata and copied to NAS, check.
MinimStreamer installed, transcode option set to dsf:dopwav, dff:dopwav, check.
rescan library, no errors in logs, check.
launch control point, select album and play, check.

Sounds very good, I see the bit rate coming through @ WAV 24/176
2nd track started and then started to splutter, stop/start Confused
So, started to play an existing 24/192 and monitor Synology stats. LAN data fluctuating around 1.1 Mbps.
Ok, back to DSD album and played another track. LAN data fluctuating around 1.3 Mbps. Sounds very good.
next track starts and the splutter, stop/start begins again, Huh

Everything is wired via a Netgear switch and BT HH5. I have never had an issue with my 24/192 material and all albums play seamlessly. So is something else happening whilst trying to play DSD?

data transfer seems about the same. I was impressed with the Synology stats though, 11% CPU and 22% RAM whilst playing DSD.

I will try again and see what happens. Initial thoughts on sound quality was very good. However, its already very good with my HD and Red Book material.

To be continued...

Sounds like you have the same problems that I have. I have reduced the problems by moving from a synology NAS to Qnap ( I needed to do that anyway and for other reasons than just DSD playback) but the problems still remain. I have found that the streamer is more stable if you play some pcm for about 5 to 10 mins before switching to DSD. I would also contact Chord as they are very aware of this problem. I have a long set of email exchanges with them and they have offered, when they consider it is fully ready, a hardware upgrade to resolve the problem. The more of us who complain, hopefully the sooner there will be a resolution.


RE: DSD Playback - AntonD - 07-03-2015 14:36

(07-03-2015 14:03)beckphotonik Wrote:  
(07-03-2015 13:49)AntonD Wrote:  Update!
ok, dsf tracks updated metadata and copied to NAS, check.
MinimStreamer installed, transcode option set to dsf:dopwav, dff:dopwav, check.
rescan library, no errors in logs, check.
launch control point, select album and play, check.

Sounds very good, I see the bit rate coming through @ WAV 24/176
2nd track started and then started to splutter, stop/start Confused
So, started to play an existing 24/192 and monitor Synology stats. LAN data fluctuating around 1.1 Mbps.
Ok, back to DSD album and played another track. LAN data fluctuating around 1.3 Mbps. Sounds very good.
next track starts and the splutter, stop/start begins again, Huh

Everything is wired via a Netgear switch and BT HH5. I have never had an issue with my 24/192 material and all albums play seamlessly. So is something else happening whilst trying to play DSD?

data transfer seems about the same. I was impressed with the Synology stats though, 11% CPU and 22% RAM whilst playing DSD.

I will try again and see what happens. Initial thoughts on sound quality was very good. However, its already very good with my HD and Red Book material.

To be continued...

Sounds like you have the same problems that I have. I have reduced the problems by moving from a synology NAS to Qnap ( I needed to do that anyway and for other reasons than just DSD playback) but the problems still remain. I have found that the streamer is more stable if you play some pcm for about 5 to 10 mins before switching to DSD. I would also contact Chord as they are very aware of this problem. I have a long set of email exchanges with them and they have offered, when they consider it is fully ready, a hardware upgrade to resolve the problem. The more of us who complain, hopefully the sooner there will be a resolution.

Thats very interesting to know. Sounds like you may have done some of the hard work for me already Smile
I will email Chord and explain my situation too. Lets see what comes back.
It would be interesting to know how many DSX1000's are out there.
If its not too long a storey, why did you have to move to Qnap? I have been very impressed with my DS213+
I will say that the streamer does perform unbelievably well with PCM. The sound i get is amazing, it touches the soul.
What amplification are you using?
My setup is DSX, Naim SuperNait2, Spendor A6
All the best, Anton


RE: DSD Playback - beckphotonik - 07-03-2015 14:51

(07-03-2015 14:36)AntonD Wrote:  
(07-03-2015 14:03)beckphotonik Wrote:  
(07-03-2015 13:49)AntonD Wrote:  Update!
ok, dsf tracks updated metadata and copied to NAS, check.
MinimStreamer installed, transcode option set to dsf:dopwav, dff:dopwav, check.
rescan library, no errors in logs, check.
launch control point, select album and play, check.

Sounds very good, I see the bit rate coming through @ WAV 24/176
2nd track started and then started to splutter, stop/start Confused
So, started to play an existing 24/192 and monitor Synology stats. LAN data fluctuating around 1.1 Mbps.
Ok, back to DSD album and played another track. LAN data fluctuating around 1.3 Mbps. Sounds very good.
next track starts and the splutter, stop/start begins again, Huh

Everything is wired via a Netgear switch and BT HH5. I have never had an issue with my 24/192 material and all albums play seamlessly. So is something else happening whilst trying to play DSD?

data transfer seems about the same. I was impressed with the Synology stats though, 11% CPU and 22% RAM whilst playing DSD.

I will try again and see what happens. Initial thoughts on sound quality was very good. However, its already very good with my HD and Red Book material.

To be continued...

Sounds like you have the same problems that I have. I have reduced the problems by moving from a synology NAS to Qnap ( I needed to do that anyway and for other reasons than just DSD playback) but the problems still remain. I have found that the streamer is more stable if you play some pcm for about 5 to 10 mins before switching to DSD. I would also contact Chord as they are very aware of this problem. I have a long set of email exchanges with them and they have offered, when they consider it is fully ready, a hardware upgrade to resolve the problem. The more of us who complain, hopefully the sooner there will be a resolution.

Thats very interesting to know. Sounds like you may have done some of the hard work for me already Smile
I will email Chord and explain my situation too. Lets see what comes back.
It would be interesting to know how many DSX1000's are out there.
If its not too long a storey, why did you have to move to Qnap? I have been very impressed with my DS213+
I will say that the streamer does perform unbelievably well with PCM. The sound i get is amazing, it touches the soul.
What amplification are you using?
My setup is DSX, Naim SuperNait2, Spendor A6
All the best, Anton

The reason I moved from Synology (DS212j) to Qnap was that I had the Synology equipped with 2x128GB SSDs and I was out of free space. I trawled the web looking to see if any NAS mentioned DSD compatibility in their marketing text and found only Qnap. I purchased the HS 251 with WD Reds on that basis. The rest of my system is a Chord SPM1200 MkII driving Wilson Benesch Vectors. For me too the sound is pure magic. Btw if you are buying from NativeDSD and are a classical lover, avoid the LSO Live Tchaikovsky Symphonies 1-3. Symphonies 1&2 were recorded at the Barbican and the acoustics suck all life from the recording, not worth spending the extra on a DSD version.