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+--- Thread: Selecting a set of tracks (/showthread.php?tid=1891)
RE: Selecting a set of tracks - Pastim - 06-10-2014 22:43
(06-10-2014 21:09)simoncn Wrote: To add all the items for an artist (etc.) with no duplicates, you can open the container and add the "n items" subcontainer (if your control point supports this).I'm close to giving up, again. I seem to see 'n items' sometimes, but not for all types of tag, and I'm not sure quite if it's the same set in different control points or not.
I keep trying to make sense of UPnP. Your server seems great, but without a practical control point, the user interface is unprintably unusable, and so the server goes unused, however good it is. I find it hard to understand, given the many hundreds or thousands of compatible types of devices out there, but I suppose I must have been spoilt by LMS. It's a shame, but without a really usable end in sight what can I do? How come so many others manage to use it and I can't?
To be clear, most of my music is classical. I usually either play recital albums (which are OK with the current interfaces) or Works. My music is tagged with Works, Movements and WorkArtists, as well as Composers, Conductors and Bands (Orchestras), plus the standard Albums, Artists and AlbumArtists. The layout the server supplies to the CP is perfect for this, providing selections at each level that allow me to see Works or Movements by many different initial criteria. All I want to do then is to select at the level I want and play, but the CPs won't let me. It is madness. The data is all there, but no one seems to be able to use it..............
RE: Selecting a set of tracks - simoncn - 07-10-2014 10:52
(06-10-2014 22:43)Pastim Wrote:(06-10-2014 21:09)simoncn Wrote: To add all the items for an artist (etc.) with no duplicates, you can open the container and add the "n items" subcontainer (if your control point supports this).I'm close to giving up, again. I seem to see 'n items' sometimes, but not for all types of tag, and I'm not sure quite if it's the same set in different control points or not.
This is probably because MinimServer omits this in some special cases, such as when all the selected tracks are part of the same album or have the same tags. This is to enable the user to directly select individual albums or items.
Quote:I keep trying to make sense of UPnP. Your server seems great, but without a practical control point, the user interface is unprintably unusable, and so the server goes unused, however good it is. I find it hard to understand, given the many hundreds or thousands of compatible types of devices out there, but I suppose I must have been spoilt by LMS. It's a shame, but without a really usable end in sight what can I do? How come so many others manage to use it and I can't?
To be clear, most of my music is classical. I usually either play recital albums (which are OK with the current interfaces) or Works. My music is tagged with Works, Movements and WorkArtists, as well as Composers, Conductors and Bands (Orchestras), plus the standard Albums, Artists and AlbumArtists. The layout the server supplies to the CP is perfect for this, providing selections at each level that allow me to see Works or Movements by many different initial criteria. All I want to do then is to select at the level I want and play, but the CPs won't let me. It is madness. The data is all there, but no one seems to be able to use it..............
I'm sorry to hear this. Have you tried BubbleUPnP? I think it meets all your criteria, including selecting everything by a given artist without duplication. If you don't have an Android tablet already, I think it would be worth buying one to be able to run BubbleUPnP.
RE: Selecting a set of tracks - Pastim - 07-10-2014 11:23
(07-10-2014 10:52)simoncn Wrote: I'm sorry to hear this. Have you tried BubbleUPnP? I think it meets all your criteria, including selecting everything by a given artist without duplication. If you don't have an Android tablet already, I think it would be worth buying one to be able to run BubbleUPnP.Thanks for the advice. However, I don't want to spend a few hundred quid on a tablet just to play music. More devices = more problems. I can use my "smartphone" with bubbleupnp, but the screen really isn't big enough for browsing.
I need my laptop since it allows me to create as well as consume, for instance allowing me to use puddletag to re-tag tracks the way I want to whilst listening, as well as for all sort of other activities. I much prefer to run linux, and anyway the Windows CPs seem little better (eg. I have no idea what the designers of Kinsky thought they were up to, but it's a mess).
I have a few hopes that the upplay developer might be able to get it done properly over time. If you have any advice on the use of the protocols, such as just requesting the container once, not multiple times for its contents, maybe you could pass the details to him/her?
One question I would ask is whether the 'n items' applies to all tags in the server at all levels? For instance, If I go to a Composer I see 'n items'. But if I go to 'Conductor', or 'Artist', let alone 'Work', beneath that, I don't see 'n items' in either foobar2000 or upplay.
If was able to develop myself I'd give it a go, but my skills are far too rusty, and were never in this field, let alone using the languages employed these days. Now if it was in assembler and I had to do everything myself rather than understand umpteen other different interfaces I might do better, but that's not the modern world of IT
RE: Selecting a set of tracks - simoncn - 07-10-2014 14:08
(07-10-2014 11:23)Pastim Wrote: Thanks for the advice. However, I don't want to spend a few hundred quid on a tablet just to play music.
I believe there are 7-inch Android tablets available for less than £100.
Quote:One question I would ask is whether the 'n items' applies to all tags in the server at all levels? For instance, If I go to a Composer I see 'n items'. But if I go to 'Conductor', or 'Artist', let alone 'Work', beneath that, I don't see 'n items' in either foobar2000 or upplay.
It applies to all tags if the resulting selection meets the criteria (as described in my previous post). This is working for me with foobar. What do you see in foobar after you select an artist? Can you send a screenshot?
RE: Selecting a set of tracks - Pastim - 07-10-2014 14:24
Attached. This is Artist Barenboim (under B). Several Composers, no 'n items' and so on.
Have I totally misunderstood?
RE: Selecting a set of tracks - Pastim - 07-10-2014 15:40
I don't comprehend the logic for showing 'n items'. I suspect that it is one of the things that is causing me to be so confused. You say it "omits this in some special cases, such as when all the selected tracks are part of the same album or have the same tags. This is to enable the user to directly select individual albums or items." Which tags are you referring to? It can't be all of them can it otherwise in the example I posted there should be 'n items' under 'composer' shouldn't there? And why can't the user 'select individual albums or items' even if 'n items' is also available? I'm sure what you are saying is sensible, but I fail to understand it.
My foobar2000 won't play most containers (you can right click and say 'send to current playlist' but it doesn't do anything - does yours do the same?), so I am usually led to have to select either whole albums or individual tracks, which is very unhelpful. If every level had 'n items' I could always pick that where it suits me, and I believe many of my user interface difficulties would go away. In foobar, for instance, I can never tell what will play and what won't until I click on it. So even if I have selected Work or Composer to see what's in it I'd like to see 'n items', as well as any other breakdown, ditto under Movement where the individual tracks are listed - 'n items' would mean 'play all'.
However, I suspect I am being too much of a nuisance and taking up too much of your time, so please tell me to go away if you wish.
RE: Selecting a set of tracks - simoncn - 07-10-2014 18:10
(07-10-2014 14:24)Pastim Wrote: Attached. This is Artist Barenboim (under B). Several Composers, no 'n items' and so on.
Have I totally misunderstood?
There is a '153 items' container as the first entry under the Artist container for Barenboim Daniel. This shows that "n items" is working for the Artist tag.
RE: Selecting a set of tracks - simoncn - 07-10-2014 19:11
(07-10-2014 15:40)Pastim Wrote: I don't comprehend the logic for showing 'n items'. I suspect that it is one of the things that is causing me to be so confused. You say it "omits this in some special cases, such as when all the selected tracks are part of the same album or have the same tags. This is to enable the user to directly select individual albums or items." Which tags are you referring to? It can't be all of them can it otherwise in the example I posted there should be 'n items' under 'composer' shouldn't there? And why can't the user 'select individual albums or items' even if 'n items' is also available? I'm sure what you are saying is sensible, but I fail to understand it.
For example, suppose that a certain artist matches only two tracks in the same album. If you select that artist, you probably don't want to see '2 items' and '1 album'. I think most people would prefer to just see the two tracks in a list so that they can select them directly from the Artist selection result without needing to click on '2 items' first.
A similar case occurs when all items in your current selection have no more tag choices left because all the indexed tags for the selected items are identical. (Note that Album and Title aren't indexed tags.)
Quote:My foobar2000 won't play most containers (you can right click and say 'send to current playlist' but it doesn't do anything - does yours do the same?)
Yes, it does.
Quote:, so I am usually led to have to select either whole albums or individual tracks, which is very unhelpful. If every level had 'n items' I could always pick that where it suits me, and I believe many of my user interface difficulties would go away. In foobar, for instance, I can never tell what will play and what won't until I click on it. So even if I have selected Work or Composer to see what's in it I'd like to see 'n items', as well as any other breakdown, ditto under Movement where the individual tracks are listed - 'n items' would mean 'play all'.
Showing "n items" in addition to a list of tracks would add visual clutter and would cause duplicate entries when playing the immediately enclosing container (for control points that support this but don't remove duplicates). I don't think it would be a good idea to make this change.
RE: Selecting a set of tracks - Pastim - 07-10-2014 19:58
(07-10-2014 18:10)simoncn Wrote:But it isn't working for the Composer tag beneath Artist - that's the point I'm trying and seemingly failing with. Sorry - it must be me. I'll try one last time to understand. Is there some reason why, in the attachment to this, that under Beethoven I don't see 'n items'. There are several works, each consisting of several movements. Is it because they are in the same Album? I don't see why that should affect the 'n item' logic. The album could well have many works by many composers (I have many albums with hundreds of tracks).(07-10-2014 14:24)Pastim Wrote: Attached. This is Artist Barenboim (under B). Several Composers, no 'n items' and so on.
Have I totally misunderstood?
There is a '153 items' container as the first entry under the Artist container for Barenboim Daniel. This shows that "n items" is working for the Artist tag.
RE: Selecting a set of tracks - simoncn - 07-10-2014 20:22
(07-10-2014 19:58)Pastim Wrote: But it isn't working for the Composer tag beneath Artist - that's the point I'm trying and seemingly failing to make.
From your previous post:
One question I would ask is whether the 'n items' applies to all tags in the server at all levels? For instance, If I go to a Composer I see 'n items'. But if I go to 'Conductor', or 'Artist', let alone 'Work', beneath that, I don't see 'n items' in either foobar2000 or upplay.
From this, I thought you could see "n items" under Composer but not under Artist. From this latest post, I think the issue is that you are not seeing "n items" at lower levels in the browse tree. This is probably because all the tracks at the lower level either belong to the same album or don't have any remaining indexed tag choices.